#DontSubmitToStonewall - suggested quick action by Legal Feminist

[stumbledin]

(From twitter post)

A follow up on the Stonewall long read: this one is a very short call for a simple (2-3 minute) action.

Please share widely. #DontSubmitToStonewall twitter.com/hashtag/DontSubmitToStonewall?src=hashtag_click

Please share and submit a request or two. Whatdotheyknow.com makes it very straightforward. If you don't dare ask your own public authority employer, maybe swap with a friend.

legalfeminist.org.uk/2021/02/04/shining-a-light-on-stonewalls-activities/?_thumbnail_id=451

Is there a place where there is a list of those who have been FOIed?

@stumbledin

Is there a place where there is a list of those who have been FOIed?

Not one which is easy to cross reference with the Diversity Champions list.

This is the current list of FOIs
www.whatdotheyknow.com/search/%23DontSubmitToStonewall/all

And this is the Stonewall list of diversity champions.
www.stonewall.org.uk/diversity-champions-members

I think this is one of the pitfalls of uncoordinated action. The good part is that lots of people can easily join in, but the negative side is that it's difficult to keep track of what's been done and what still needs doing.

[quote FannyCann]@allmywhat I use a pseudonym for WhatDoTheyKnow as I submitted an FOI to my own employer (and for a while had a desk next to the FOI officer ).
It would be sensible to make a different email address to be safe, using your pseudonym. [/quote]
You little devil!! 😈 Love that. Hope it was fruitful and satisfying.

I love this campaign, such a genius idea. I've requested FOI for LA's already and plan to do more. Worried about my local NHS trust too so they are my next target.

Re: pseudonyms

I think as long as your pseudonym reads like a real name, you're unlikely to have problems. So 'Angry Woman' is suspect in a way "Janet Gordon" might not be. The one in the link upthread came suspect because they said it was a reversal of a likelier name and seemed questionable by that.

The resulting problem is that you can't complain to the Information Commissioner (or however exactly the next port of call is) if public authority's response is wildly inadequate. But I think this is sacrificable.

If you have a common enough surname, FOI's own information allows you to put in an initial instead of your name. But the thing broadly is searchable by search engine. The problem then comes if you have a very rare (or even individual) surname. Then there is no escape by their rules and under the latter circumstance, I am not going to submit my name to that.

I've put in an FOI under a pseudonym. We shall see. It's a real surname, even with some broader connection to me, it's just not mine.

@WeeTorag just to let you know that Standing for Women are also looking at NHS trusts for their new campaign:

My body
My choice
My space
My voice

www.standingforwomen.com/research-help

[quote OhHolyJesus]@WeeTorag just to let you know that Standing for Women are also looking at NHS trusts for their new campaign:

My body
My choice
My space
My voice

www.standingforwomen.com/research-help[/quote]
Ahh thanks, I'll take a look. 🙏

Hey all, I made a list of all the orgs that have been submitted to. There are probably some duplicates but I thought this might be handy

pastebin.com/uNXShx3r

I can update this in a few days as it's running from a script.

This was just annoying enough to shake me out of a deeply mopey mood (search links don't work past page 15 on that site, also none of the modern scraping tools worked for some reason and I had to go really old school, swearing at the computer is much more fun than feeling mopey.)

I also (very roughly) cross-referenced the above with the Stonewall Champions list (education, local government and emergency services sections only) and came up with the following that have probably not been FOI'd

pastebin.com/yQ1AKaf7

Above list is not reliable but i have done a few spot checks and it seems like a good starting point.

disappointed update- I just realised that restricting searches by date on the whatdotheyknow website appears to simply not work. I've tried sevaral times to ask it for requests made before 4th February 2021 and it's pulling up requests made after that date. This messes up my list - I've got about 400 of the requests made (up to page 15 of the search results, beyond which the website stops functioning) but without being able to restrict search results by date I can't get the rest and so it's filling up with duplicates.

That website can't handle us!

www.whatdotheyknow.com/search/%23DontSubmitToStonewall%20OR%20%23dontsubmittostonewall%2001/01/2021..04/02/2021/ if anyone can get the date restricted search functioning properly let me know and I can generate the complete list

Wow allmywhat good work!

Thank you Valancy!

I sorted out the date restriction problem (for anyone who might be wondering, you have to separately date-restrict both versions of the hashtag) and I'm pretty sure this is the definitive list of all requests so far. There are still duplicates on the list, but I think they are legitimate duplicates where the request was submitted twice.

pastebin.com/ryG9rhPV

Place marking

allmywhat - brilliant - must be satisfying to out smart some else's bad database design! Have a or maybe a .

Does anyone know if you can FOI charities?

@Precipice

Re: pseudonyms

I think as long as your pseudonym reads like a real name, you're unlikely to have problems. So 'Angry Woman' is suspect in a way "Janet Gordon" might not be. The one in the link upthread came suspect because they said it was a reversal of a likelier name and seemed questionable by that.

The resulting problem is that you can't complain to the Information Commissioner (or however exactly the next port of call is) if public authority's response is wildly inadequate. But I think this is sacrificable.

If you have a common enough surname, FOI's own information allows you to put in an initial instead of your name. But the thing broadly is searchable by search engine. The problem then comes if you have a very rare (or even individual) surname. Then there is no escape by their rules and under the latter circumstance, I am not going to submit my name to that.

I've put in an FOI under a pseudonym. We shall see. It's a real surname, even with some broader connection to me, it's just not mine.

If you identify as having that name then surely it is your name. To suggest you actually have another name would be to deadname you, even if you are name-fluid and only identify as that name on the first sunday in months with an 'f'?

twitter.com/BluskyeAllison/status/1357962514047373313?s=19

Someone on there called U. Winfield has been very busy today! Go U!!

@WeeTorag

Someone on there called U. Winfield has been very busy today! Go U!!

There’s a U Winfield who does excellent work in the Times comment section.

You know, while this is all obviously necessary given recent behaviour, it still pains me a bit that..stonewall is The Bad Guy these days. I explained to a stonewall supporting friend a few days back, and they refused to see any issues, until the fighting for males in womens rugby thing, THAT turned them instantly, as someone who is very sporty.

Honestly, its even more depressing to me that this 'went bad' while a lesbian was 'in charge'..so to speak. I cannot for the life of me see that Hunt did not see what she was doing, and the direction it was all taking. I can believe she thought she was doing good, to start with mind.

I know. It hurts. 15 years or so ago I remember seeing a ‘Some People Are Lesbians, Get Over It’ poster near my flat & loving it. Now I wonder if I should have read ‘People’ as a warning of things to come.

Ruth Hunt, who cited ‘women are always going to get raped’ as a reason that it wasn’t worth our having single sex spaces....

I think there have always been women who faced the enormity of the reality of being female in a patriarchal society decide that the only way to deal with it is to minimise what it actually means to be constantly under threat from men and male violence.

Hence throw away lines like "women are always goign to get raped".

And of course the added bonus for these women is that they then become enourmously popular with men, as they are letting men off the hook.

Feck's sake - I just looked at the Stonewall website and their list of champions is ridiculous.

All these companies who seem to be thinking out of their arse - do they have any idea the damage they are perpetuating!?

Surprise surprise The Guardian is a stonewall champion

as they are letting men off the hook

Yes, their behaviour is that of an enabler, yet some of them have the cheek to claim their anti-women actions and words are feminist.

Here's the latest list of all orgs submitted to. I've put it in alphabetical order this time so it's easier to check. Quite a few duplicates so it really is worth checking to avoid wasted effort!

I think some orgs get so many requests that even a very recent #DontSubmitToStonewall request may not show up near the beginning of their profile.

pastebin.com/ZvfKDzAJ

Brilliant work, everyone! 🥂

I've maxed out my limit on What do they know for today, mostly NHS Trusts.

Stunning work wimbats and allies!

And thanks for collating everything Allmywhat. We're hoping to follow up all the local authorities in Wales and then health boards. And then universities. It goes on and on doesn't it!

Incidentally, the wonderful Naomi from Legal Feminist has just explained to the Women & Equalities Committee GRA inquiry that:
“The law can no more change a person’s sex than King Canute can stem the tide.”

Yep!