Handford Parish Council debacle

[Kit19]

Depressing how many people in the MSM and on social media seem to find this hilarious probably because its a parish council meeting and seem to be overlooking the bullying and misogyny

@MammaMiaWallace

I have to admit I’m really surprised at the reaction to this! I watched it and thought Jackie was massively over-reaching like a power crazed autocrat. I think it was unacceptable to kick the Chair and Vice Chair out of the meeting (assuming they’re elected), and it didn’t appear that she is or had the proper authority to just arbitrarily kick elected officials people off the meeting. It’s extraordinarily rude!

Yes the Vice Chair kicked off immediately after the Chair was unceremoniously removed (and I thought the Chair’s gripes were valid, if they are accurate) so I don’t understand all this “go Jackie” sentiment. Is it because they’re men and she’s a woman? (I have Aspergers so maybe not seeing what others can see, but from my perspective I thought she was totally out of order! Although the whole thing was generally embarrassing for all parties!)

Nb. If they’re not elected, then my feelings are less strong - to the point of utter ambivalence - but I still don’t hold Jackie up as anything to aspire to!

It's interesting you thought this. I have ADHD (and struggle socially) and thought the same as you. Then saw others reactions abs am trying to get my head around why my impression was somewhat different to everyone else!).

Now I know the backstory, it makes more sense. There was a history of the chair and his cronies running everything and due to one of his cronies leaving they had been trying to stop anything being done and had refused to hold meetings (there's a better summary upthread by DavidBowie....). So Jackie's what seemed to be overreaching to me, makes sense with more context.

Also a clerk isn't just a minute taker/PA type person I don't think, they seem to be people that advise on the proper proceedings from what I've read? In which case the chair was mansplaining! If I've understood it correctly.

Now what's interesting is that I don't believe that everyone watching this video knows all of the above but this leaves me wondering how did they pick up that shack or wax in the right and the others were in the wrong with no information or context on what was happening.

I might get my DH to watch as he is NT and ask him what he can see that I can't!

@MammaMiaWallace and @RavingAnnie

They clearly reference a previous meeting when some of the men were also behaving appallingly so this is part of pattern. Besides which, when you behave like that you cannot expect to stay in a meeting, even if you talk like that for just 20 seconds, it's not OK.

@ListeningQuietly

Doing Aled is the younger one. The older one is his Dad The awful shouty young one is the elected councillor

Why did an elected councillor bring his dad to a meeting? That's very odd behavour?

Any member of the public can attend. Sues husband was there too.

Our parish council is just the same. One female joined and did great things, had great ideas but they didn’t like them , they didn’t want knew ideas. Eventually she resigned as they bullied here and blocked everything she did. It’s really sad.

[quote foxhat]@MammaMiaWallace and @RavingAnnie

They clearly reference a previous meeting when some of the men were also behaving appallingly so this is part of pattern. Besides which, when you behave like that you cannot expect to stay in a meeting, even if you talk like that for just 20 seconds, it's not OK.[/quote]
I think what's different is that I could see the VC was behaving inappropriately. He seemed very angry and storming about and swearing is obviously not ok. The chair however just seemed to be being assertive to me. It wasn't until I found out he was wrong in what he was saying and that Jackie had authority to do what she did that it all made more sense. My confusion is that others (ie the rest of the world!) don't seem to need that context to see his behaviour as bullying. Just trying to work out why. As @MammaMiaWallace also saw what I did I wonder if it's because I are ND and I often miss things socially. Or perhaps I have just normalised this type of behaviour?

One thing that annoyed me and I haven’t read the full thread was that another woman asks that Jackie be treated with respect and then she ( the other woman) is laughed at by the men. Blatant sexism

The chair however just seemed to be being assertive to me.

WILL YOU STOP TALKING?!

Jackie Weaver clearly followed the advice from the phrase 'don't argue with an idiot, because people won't know who the idiot is'.

@RavingAnnie I have ASD (Aspergers). I saw it as inappropriate behaviour and I thought she was right to remove him but a) I've been in meetings like that before as a councillor and have a good idea of likely code of conduct / rules etc. and b) had numerous similar work meetings where it's been explained to me afterwards that that behaviour isn't okay. Maybe it needs to be modelled and explained first before you'd see it? I've learned there's a distinction between shouting and being assertive. I also perceived it as a misogynistic thing, but that's more to do with how all the men behaved vs how all the women did (the men who didn't shout didn't stand up for JW). Tb fair I have also seen men behave like that to men, frequently (I work in a male dominated industry).

Agreed. I made a comment on FB saying the same thing. It's not funny

But it doesn't matter if Jackie was right or wrong. That is a distraction. The men's behaviour was unacceptable and they alone are responsible for that behaviour.

Yes I agree.

The chair however just seemed to be being assertive to me

He wasn't, he was being completely contemptuous of Jackie, as was the young one, and that other guy she kicked into the waiting room.

The chair was trying to derail the meeting before it even began - going on about it being called unlawfully and nit-picking about when a 'point of order' could be raised and by whom. All Jackie Weaver wanted to do was start the meeting and she wasn't even allowed to do that.

The KEY POINT
is that we can change this
- by going out and challenging them in May

If you want to stand against them as a councillor you need to register as a candidate now. If nobody stands against them there won’t be an election, they’ll just be elected by default.

@napody - I thought the same - it was such a missed opportunity! It was the straw the broke the camels back for me - I used to love WH, but recently I've just not found it as interesting, informative or engaging..., so I've now unsubscribed from the podcast

The chair was trying to derail the meeting before it even began - going on about it being called unlawfully and nit-picking about when a 'point of order' could be raised and by whom

I think we're all familiar with those discussion-blocking techniques.

I think we're all familiar with those discussion-blocking techniques.

Oh yes!

The 'Flatpack Democracy' movement is trying to change this... have a look, it's very interesting.

The Flatpack Democary organisation is indeed very interesting although my interest in it and perspecttive on it is likely to be very different to yours

I have to hold my hand up and say that I found the meeting to be absolutely hilarious.

I thought that Jackie Weaver came across very well and the bullies demonstrated very clearly that they are bullies and I hope they feel ashamed of themselves.

I have attended no end of meetings like this in community organisations, statutory organisations and charities.

I once attended a community radio meeting where it ended up in a scuffle that could have arguably been called violent.

Sometimes, very often in fact, power goes to people's heads

I did find it funny and have hugely enjoyed the various memes and parodies today. I'm laughing at those men behaving like absolute idiots. I completely get that they are bullies and their behaviour is unacceptable.
You can find something funny but still understand that it's sexist and wrong. I definitely don't think this is how people should behave in meetings and know it could be really distressing, I also know that it's very undemocratic and is indicative of how a lot of committees work in practice. I still laughed at the pathetic men and cheered for the super cool Jackie who took none of their shit.
I think most people are taking that perspective on it really.

hooda
I heard Mel Usher speak at an event
Its a method that will not work in all areas
but should be tried in far more.

I don't think most of them covered themselves in glory but Jackie was just a lot clever at hiding it.

Apparently theres a huge back story chatting to my friend who works for a council and the've all being discussing it.

There opion was because Jackie was in charge of zoom she thought she was in charge of the meeting.

If you listen to the opening bit the man ask a question she talks over him refuses to listen and say's she'll removing him then continues to talk over him.

She refused to listen
Talked over him
Tried to elect new chairman
Removed people not up to her to do that that but because she had control of zoom just did it
As the situation escalated she couldn't of been more inflammatory if she tried .
The mans attitude was a disgrace he play right into her hands .

I think they were as bad as each other but she just lit the fuse and watched him explode

ListeningQuietly

I have spent a lot of time researching networks linked to the Flatpack Democracy website and people, transition towns are also interesting

In this age of Brexit and various parts of the UK possibly becoming independent it is fascinating to reflect upon political movements supporting decentralisation and also their involvement in and connections to various CICs charities and other movements, including the human potential movement, community theatre groups, the New Thought movment and various controversial spiritual movements. Oh, and of course permaculture, green and sustainable development projects.

This is weeks of work and I'm still working on it

But it's definitely something worthy of scrutiny and reflection.

Have you watched the meeting immediately before this one? It's on YouTube too. Basically it kicked off in the planning meeting, the same people left the meeting and this was the full council meeting that immediately followed. So it didn't really start at the start Iyswim.