Fundraising for Surrogacy during a pandemic

[OhHolyJesus]

This couple are taking surrogacy route due to a rare medical condition that the women has. I have great sympathy for that sorry situation, losing her mum to cervical cancer is obviously awful too.

They have "found a surrogate" (mother) but need money to fund the process due to a her nurses salary and him being furloughed from the pub he manages.

(Lacey's surgery was only last Dec so two months ago max.)

www.thecomet.net/news/arlesey-couple-in-surrogacy-bid-after-miscarriages-7298198

I find fundraising for this distasteful at best but during a pandemic where so many people are struggling financially and dying is something else.

What an unfortunate situation.

I'm torn because I've never experienced the pain of not being able to carry a child. However, hiring another woman's body isn't the solution.

I make no secret of being anti-surrogacy in all forms (though I do see the emotional draw when it relates to cancer or a something that is unfortunate and very sad, I still don't see how it's right to get someone else to do it for you and not explore other routes like adoption first.)

What do you make of the fundraising aspect Sheleg? After funding court cases, and animal, women and children's charities my whole life and more so since I woke up to gender ideology, and buying for the food bank every week (more since lock down) it doesn't sit right with me that the begging bowl is out during these difficult times where the majority of the country, and certainly the readers of that local paper, will be struggling in some form or another.

If anything I struggle to understand why the adoption process wouldn't be preferable as it's cheaper, though it takes longer, though the genetic connection would be why they are choosing to hire a 'willing womb', if it's about money it should be easier to go the adoption route surely?

As you say, you are anti surrogacy and it shows. Put simply, just don't donate.

There is so much pain in TTC for years. Options people say they wouldn't do can begin to be considered as time goes on. And people that don't suffer the same will always have some judgement.

@Ronnii

As you say, you are anti surrogacy and it shows. Put simply, just don't donate.

There is so much pain in TTC for years. Options people say they wouldn't do can begin to be considered as time goes on. And people that don't suffer the same will always have some judgement.

I have been through the pain of surrogacy and still think surrogacy is a disgusting practice.

I’m also generally against surrogacy, I say generally as I suppose there could be some examples whereby both parties are fully on board and it’s not to the detriment of the pregnant woman.

However, I don’t agree that adoption is an ‘easy option’. The effects of developmental trauma can be far reaching and life long.

Oh I don't really like this. I'm not comfortable with paid surrogacy, although I know for some people they see it as the only route to parenthood. But fundraising to rent a womb is a bit ick.

Options people say they wouldn't do can begin to be considered as time goes on

That's true, as time goes on an idea you would have rejected at the beginning becomes more appealing as time goes by.

There was a podcast where a woman who would never consider using a African woman's eggs before started leaning towards the idea due to a lack of black egg donors in the U.K.

I think Sophie Beresiner looked at commercial surrogacy in America, basically the goal posts move according to your own internal moral code and how you become more desperate or persuade yourself to believe it is ok for you to do something.

To be honest it works the other way too, where a woman has been a surrogate mother and she has a bad experience and perhaps has to have a hysterectomy, the options available to you to have more of your own children evaporate.

This woman speaks about this towards the end of the interview, she was considering having her tubes tied before agreeing to have a sibling for the couple she had already had a daughter for. She has a hysterectomy after the second daughter is born and later remarries (or has a new partner) and considers surrogacy through someone else but only momentarily as she says she could never ask a woman to go through that, and more importantly she would never do that to a baby. Her entire perspective of surrogacy had changed when she had been directly involved and very much taken advantage of at a young age.

This has been shared on another thread but I'll share it again, it's a tragic story but all her children (she calls them all hers) are safe from the commissioning father who was both a child abuser and involved in a human trafficking ring.

As you say, you are anti surrogacy and it shows

Well yes it would as I make no secret of it, as I said.

Put simply, just don't donate.

No I won't. I started the thread to see what others thought about the concept.

Fundraisers around medical treatment to save a child's life or to her private medical care due to urgency over waiting lists I can understand. Anything that is life saving of course makes sense, but the crowdfunder as to create a life are somehow involving others in the purchasing side of things.

If I donated to such a crowdfund and a child was born you would hope they had a loving family and a great life but if they didn't would I somehow be responsible for bringing the life into the world seeing as ai contributed money to help make it happen, alongside all the others donating. Of course you would never know how it turned out anyway.

After all the docs involved are just doing their job but I would have helped to pay them.

I'm just exploring it as an idea here, always interested to hear what others think.

We can all learn. And I do see your points.

I wouldn't say my morals would erode over time to the point of doing something horrible.

Personally, my sister has offered multiple times to be my surrogate, but I don't want that, for me it is not an option I want to do.
For people who call it disgusting, I don't fully get it but I guess you're focusing on it being a transaction between strangers and the risks of pregnancy making it wrong.

I don't see adoption as a simple option, nor is surrogacy.

I understand not wanting to donate to a strangers surrogacy fund, not knowing the type of parents or people they are. Or even are their finances ready for a baby.

I meant I've been through infertility, not surrogacy!

I wouldn't say my morals would erode over time to the point of doing something horrible.

I said move not erode but 'shift' could be a better way if describing it, and it would be how you come to terms with doing something your previously, maybe instinctively, rejected and it becoming more palatable over time to the point you have completely changed your mind.

This can happen where a man might reject the idea of his wife or partner being a surrogate mother or not wanting a sperm donor and as it becomes clear that's the only way his wife or partner can have a biological child, your just come around to the idea.

We can all talk ourselves into or out of taking action in ways we once thought impossible.

Clearly this couple hoped for a biological child without problems but since they have encountered some the idea of surrogacy (notably not adoption from what we can tell from the article at least) is now so appealing they want to raise money to do it.

If it's exploiting a woman it's morally wrong (though I realise some women do genuinely want to be a surrogate mother but there is very often some deeply rooted reasons for that and if it's a joke they want to fix by doing this then that could be detrimental rather than healing or altruistic) and it will always be wrong for the baby as a baby would always choose it's mother.

I agree that deep psychological pain, often experienced due to infertility, can cause people to shift what they previously would never consider.

Which strengthens the argument to better regulate or outright ban surrogacy because we know desperate people don't always make sound judgements. Most people would agree on the principle that there are ethical issues whenever you risk other people's health to alleviate your own pain. Would I risk my health to donate a kidney to save the life of my loved one? Yes! Is this highly regulated so I can't sell my kidney or be manipulated into it? Also, yes!

But unlike kidney failure, infertility does not cause death so I can't see how we can justify health risks to others. Unlike infertility, pregnancy has health risks. Treating infertility should never involve health risks to other people.

Good point Delphinium, I'm fairly sure that with organ transplants from living donors there is an opt out where you discuss, as a patient with your doctor in private, and they say there is a medical reason why it won't work so as not to be under pressure to donate unwillingly and so a family member isn't blamed or bullied into changing their mind.

I think it has a name, someone might be able to confirm or I can go look it up...

But unlike kidney failure, infertility does not cause death so I can't see how we can justify health risks to others. Unlike infertility, pregnancy has health risks. Treating infertility should never involve health risks to other people.

That really is an excellent point Delphinium - when added to the known issues with separating a baby from their mother, I just can't see how anyone consider commercial surrogacy legal.

Surrogacy exploits everyone involved. The mother who is taking a life threatening risk for money, the baby who is taken from their mother to be sold to another family and actually the woman who, in many cases, is driven half mad by infertility.

There are no winners, despite the fairytale narrative the media likes to portray

Excellent post Delphinium20

Even non life threatening complications are hard to justify. Today, looking at the listed theatre cases at my hospital there were two surgical repair of third degree tear today. A surprisingly common event, which I often see on the theatre list, and which can cause problems for life as anyone who looks at threads on Mumsnet about post natal complications will see.

...surgical repair of third degree tear today. A surprisingly common event, which I often see on the theatre list, and which can cause problems for life as anyone who looks at threads on Mumsnet about post natal complications will see.

I would love to compare views on surrogacy between mothers who have given birth and people who have not. As mothers, we know so well what happens to our pregnant bodies and how it feels to nurture a newborn. I find it problematic that people who haven't given birth feel they can request someone to do it for them or approve of surrogacy in general.

I'm against surrogacy but feel so sorry for couples like this, I can see why it seems an option. I think the desire for a child overshadows all possible concerns at the time and people will justify it because the desire to start a family is so strong. It's an awful situation but no I wouldn't donate to this one but hope all works out for them in the end.

I don't think anyone should ever suggest adoption as an option. Its something people should decide to do themselves and is nothing like having a birth child. You are a parent but tge challenges can be immense
Its the hardest thing I have ever done

I don't agree with surrogacy even so. The commodification of womens bodies is something I could never agree with.
I think we need to stop believing everyone has a right to have children

I'm just going to comment on the adoption issue.

With adoption you don't have a genetic link.
There are very very few babies who are voluntarily relinquished at birth, due to lack of social stigma, state support and abortion options.
So babies available for adoption are rare and may well come with issues regarding alcohol or drugs, or trauma for the birth mum during pregnancy, or backgrounds of mental health.
Older children there will be traumatic incidents plus the loss of their birth families and foster carers.
My youngest went in to care before she was 1. Now 15 years later she is still not emotionally secure.

I am unable to have a child and I think sometimes you just have to accept being a parent isn't your path. I think a lot of what people go through trying to have a child is driven by obsession over what they feel has been denied to them. They feel entitled to a child but to have a child isn't right.

@TeenMinusTests

I'm just going to comment on the adoption issue.

With adoption you don't have a genetic link.
There are very very few babies who are voluntarily relinquished at birth, due to lack of social stigma, state support and abortion options.
So babies available for adoption are rare and may well come with issues regarding alcohol or drugs, or trauma for the birth mum during pregnancy, or backgrounds of mental health.
Older children there will be traumatic incidents plus the loss of their birth families and foster carers.
My youngest went in to care before she was 1. Now 15 years later she is still not emotionally secure.

Thank you for this perspective- I'm sorry for you and your daughter - I can only imagine how hard that was for you. You show clearly how mother/child separation represents a deep loss and risks for complications. I feel adoption should always be child focused when circumstances leave a child without parents, that adoptive parents through their love/home/family are helping a child. - I don't see adoption as a solution or a fix to infertility-although many people who have struggled with infertility choose adoption as a way to love a child because they have a home for them. But no one has a right to a child and shouldn't expect that adoption is owed them when other methods fail.