Listening project- elephant in the room?

[Howzaboutye]

Just heard the third and final listening project conversation today.
Two men discussing the effect on their lives from sexual abuse as children. A harrowing listen.
But there was no mention of who is doing this type of abuse- it's men.
They discussed the internet as if it is populated not by actual people, but just 'there'. But it is not just 'there'. All the content on www is generated by people. And let's face it, mostly men.

Why is noone able to say to other men- just stop. This is not acceptable. If it ever gets as far a court then the perpetrators get convicted. But way way before that.

I think we need men to tell other men this is not acceptable. Why will they not?

Hello! Oh, that is a very important topic. I hope that the adequate men understand this

@mumsnet why is this in other subjects?

I started it in feminism chat, and did not ask for it to be moved.

And this is my main reason for feeling anger at men in general. Most men ignore, downplay or excuse away the awful things other men do, even if they wouldn't do those things themselves.

At my last job, I was practically getting stalked by the janitor there. He would stand in my path and was showing up at the exit door around my break time, all kinds of creepy behavior -after I'd made it clear I didn't want to talk to him.

I had a male co-worker voluntarily talk to the stalker guy for me and told him to leave me alone (It didn't work). Then later that co-worker had a change of heart and told me I was judging the man unfairly.

Another male co-worker, who seemed like a decent guy, told me he was probably just really friendly and kept standing up for him, very time I vented about how he was behaving.

Most men just do not stand up for us. I honestly don't get it, because I think a lot of them would be upset if they saw the abuse going on with their own eyes. Yet they do nothing to help, and wind up complicit in so many ways.

Oh and I did eventually go to a male supervisor, who quit speaking to me after I reported the harassment. HR got involved and the creep was ordered to stop talking to me, so he finally left me alone, but I was let go a week later.

Gosh wandering that's really shit.

I think maybe as they just are not physically vulnerable in the same way, they are not able to empathize?

Sympathize after the event does go horribly wrong, coz hey they're such a nice guy.
But empathize at the time, that that behaviour a man is exhibiting towards you is unacceptable. Nope. Just do not care.

Maybe they are just lazy and want an easy life.

I don't know. But if the majority of men stood up to the horrible ones then that would change behaviour.

But like that program showed, men are just avoiding putting the blame where it lies.

Are they just so used to 'blame the woman' that there seems to be no other conceivable option?

I think it's simple and complex at the same same. Reasons 'good men' don't say or do anything generally

Fear of other men taking the piss/ thinking they are weird/ not one of the 'lads'
It's a 'women's issue' they need to sort it out
Caring about 'their women' (hopefully!) and not extending the to women in general
The level and ease to victim blame and then it's not their problem is hers
A fear that it will 'go too far' and they/ their friends have done some questionable things in the past
The general societal thing where lip service is given to how bad stuff is, but when stuff actually happens the whole of society starts making excuses

Off the top of my head!

Yep I agree Gerbil

I heard this programme too and almost turned off halfway through because I was so cross that the two speakers barely made any mention of their abusers to hold them responsible.

There was a lot of talk from one of the man about education (to help survivors) and support for victims, but little recognition that those perpetrating these crimes are, in general, men. No talking about how to tackle men, how to educate men to not fucking abuse in the first place.

Essentially it's far easier for them to see the whole thing as somebody else's problem.

Tottie you get it!
Exactly what I thought, there was just no acknowledgement of the common factor in the perpetrators.

Every time there's a school shooting or similar act of violence, and various people are opining that it's very hard to discern a common denominator with the perpetrators, I'm the one shouting at the telly 'THEY'RE ALL MEN!!!'

NiceGerbal: "The general societal thing where lip service is given to how bad stuff is, but when stuff actually happens the whole of society starts making excuses"

So f&*%% true.

The Proud Boys is a multi-racial male supremacist group more than anything else. But I only hear that hate group referred to as "a white supremacy group".

If they were The Proud Girls and made up of women, it would be called a female supremacy group, a radical feminist group, or something with emphasis on women.

Good point. Once again the default being treated as male. And female as 'other'

Woman's hour piece today on female runners being harassed.
It's not 'people' doing the harassing is it? It's men.