Philosophy Tube - Abigail Thorn

[Thefamousfivegetcovid]

The founder of Philosophy Tube has come out as a trans woman. The channel has had 54 million views and c800k subscribers. You can read the official statement here twitter.com/PhilosophyTube/status/1355577911949070341/photo/1

Why do I think this has any relevence to feminism? I suppose the statement released is quite a political statement and one which will get a lot of views/coverage. I am also surprised by how much my reaction has differed to what it would have been 10 years ago. Then, I would have been 'how brave.' I would have mentally said welcome to the sisterhood, kind of thing. I would have worried for this person's safety, even. I would also have thought, this has no impact on me and Abigail is zero threat to me.

Now? Abigail is free to dress whatever Abigail wants. Abigail is free to rename themselves, to wear make up, to alter their voice. I have zero care at all about that to be truthful. People are free to express themselves through clothes and make up however they want. Abigail has got many supportive, positive comments from others for taking this action as opposed to hate and bigotry.

But is Abigail legitimately now a woman? I think we all know the answer to that. Will Abigail ever experience rape in a female body? Her period flooding at the worst time/place? Miscarriage? FGM? Pelvic organ prolapse? A traumatic birth where Abigail tears? The worst bits of the menopause?

I don't feel angry at someone like Abigail necessarily, I feel angry that all the thousands of people commenting on the coming out video are are so ignorant about what some women experience and this idea that has taken hold about how 'woman' is a costume or a performance. I have no make up on today. I have ratty old trousers and a T Shirt on so I can go out on my bike in a bit. I have just had my period and had a bit of a shit time of it. And I'm off to the doctor soon about a medical condition only females can get which is very painful and demoralising to deal with. Women who have it often turn to paying privately for treatment as the NHS doesn't really care. Abigail's statement clearly states that trans women are hardest hit by sexual violence and talks about 'cis' women just tweeting about toilets. I am sick to the back teeth of this Orwellian nonsense. I know very well I'm not the only one.

And I'm off to the doctor soon about a medical condition only females can get which is very painful and demoralising to deal with. Women who have it often turn to paying privately for treatment as the NHS doesn't really care. Abigail's statement clearly states that trans women are hardest hit by sexual violence and talks about 'cis' women just tweeting about toilets. I am sick to the back teeth of this Orwellian nonsense. I know very well I'm not the only one.

As I said on the other deleted thread, Abigail doesn't have the first idea what women's lives are like.

Ah, I wasn't aware one had been deleted. Thank you

There's one still up here.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4151685-another-public-statement-on-puberty-blockers?msgid=104205768#104205768

As someone on Twitter said, "the dislike of women is palpable".

But is Abigail legitimately now a woman? I think we all know the answer to that. Will Abigail ever experience rape in a female body? Her period flooding at the worst time/place? Miscarriage? FGM? Pelvic organ prolapse? A traumatic birth where Abigail tears? The worst bits of the menopause?

I think it's rather unfeministic to reduce women to traumatic experiences as if it's impossible to simultaneously be a woman and have a happy, uneventful life.

Likewise, I've never experienced rape in my 'female body', whereas Abigail certainly can experience rape perceived and even completely regarded as one by her rapist. I've never had a period flooding during an untimely matter and never will, never had a miscarriage, never experienced FGM, pelvic organ prolapse, a traumatic birth, or whatever the worst bits of menopause include, and I'm sure many Mumsnet users haven't, either.

Does that mean any of us who've not experienced those, who'll never experience those, aren't women?

Likewise, I've never experienced rape in my 'female body',

Really not sure why you've put that in quotes. Do you think there is no such thing as a female body? That it's all totally random who has the sperm and who provides the eggs?

She really does see it in terms of 'us against the awful cis people' doesn't she? If she's such a feminist why doesn't she try to make common cause with all the other people suffering from long waiting lists in this country?

My objections to Abigail's lengthy piece were the lies included about puberty blockers being reversible, which the courts have categorically stated is not true, and about trans people suffering more violence, which statistics show is also untrue, and also the sneering at middle-class 'white women' even though presumably Abigail would put herself in that class.

I am really angry at someone who has never walked in my shoes has the cheek to paint themselves as a brave victim while minimising the real fears of women based on verifiable facts that women suffer VAWG based on our sex.

If Abigail wants people to take discrimination against trans people seriously, the way to do that is not to lie and deny that women suffer any discrimination too. Doing this doesn't make Abigail's argument stronger, on the contrary, it gives the impression that Abigail sees women as the enemy, not as a group Abigail thinks Abigail is part of.

Never heard of Abigail before and would be very happy to never hear of Abigail again. How anyone chooses to dress or identify is of no interest to me at all and is an entirely private matter.

I find all these statements needing to tell the world about it very narcissistic.

I confess I look at this and wonder why so many people are simpering over it. I felt the same when Jenner claimed to be a woman and was then plastered over everything. There’s no feeling that they’ve ever been held back by any supposed feelings of womanhood. I can’t see it as an achievement. From where I’m sitting it looks more like self-indulgence.

With the rights issue in mind, I find all the simpering particularly depressing. If it wasn’t for the rights issue, I’d roll my eyes and wonder why so many people were jumping on the congratulatory bandwagon. Either way, it’s sad how many women still see these people as somehow heroic, even when it’s clear from their statements that the only supposedly feminist rights they care about are those of their fellows.

Clarification: reading that back, I see trawlers might take offence at the word ‘it’ in the first sentence. To be 100% clear, I was referring to the situation, not the person.

@Evarish

But is Abigail legitimately now a woman? I think we all know the answer to that. Will Abigail ever experience rape in a female body? Her period flooding at the worst time/place? Miscarriage? FGM? Pelvic organ prolapse? A traumatic birth where Abigail tears? The worst bits of the menopause?

I think it's rather unfeministic to reduce women to traumatic experiences as if it's impossible to simultaneously be a woman and have a happy, uneventful life.

Likewise, I've never experienced rape in my 'female body', whereas Abigail certainly can experience rape perceived and even completely regarded as one by her rapist. I've never had a period flooding during an untimely matter and never will, never had a miscarriage, never experienced FGM, pelvic organ prolapse, a traumatic birth, or whatever the worst bits of menopause include, and I'm sure many Mumsnet users haven't, either.

Does that mean any of us who've not experienced those, who'll never experience those, aren't women?

I think you're projecting a little and I find your response rather bizarre, to be honest. Where is anyone saying that you aren't a woman if you have had a happy life? Being a woman is based on your biology alone.

It still remains that much of what makes being female difficult currently and throughout history centres on what happens to or is done to our bodies.

Abigail is male, they grew up a boy, then lived as a young man. They are still male and quite clearly don't actually understand what it is to be female, to be a woman.

It's not what exact experiences you have had, it's the having all your experiences in a female body, and others reacting to you as female because they know a woman when they see one.

A professional YouTuber and self identified philosopher turns out to be somewhat self centred and a tad too preoccupied with navel gazing??

Well colour me surprised!

OK the one thing in her rant that I might want to agree with is the point about identification - I think she is saying that legal identification is harder if you are trans but its very muddled. Anyone know what she is trying to say? I assume 'the government wont let me be a wife or mother' is a distortion.

It's not the government that will stop Abigail from becoming a mother.

No problem whatever with the navel gazing. Whatever.

It's the representing of things that are untrue to support an openly gynephobic position that shouldn't go unchallenged. Feelings don't create reality.

The BBC has let Abigail repeat their bullshit here:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-56606897

[quote SunsetBeetch]The BBC has let Abigail repeat their bullshit here:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-56606897[/quote]
That's another 'colour me suprised'

I do not understand this BBC video. What rights were lost on that morning when Abigail made the brave proclamation? Why can Abigail not get healthcare or marry?

If you’re feeling distressed, you can phone bbc actionline. It says so at the foot of the article.

@SquishySquirmy

It's not the government that will stop Abigail from becoming a mother.

@SquishySquirmy Thank you for the best line of the day! This is why MN is terrific.

Tears because of a self-made choice not to accompany a sibling picking up his child?

It’s the UK.

Nobody would have said a word.

And then actual lies about rights. Transitioning doesn’t change the right to healthcare in the UK, nor the right to marry. How can the BBC release such a video. I’m properly disgusted at them for allowing this to go out with their name/logo on it.

Well, it is Ben Hunte....

twitter.com/PhilosophyTube/status/1378290860165627906?s=20

Also: "Made headlines"? Yeah, in Pink News...

Oh well here we go. Looks like it's more BBC advertising masquerading as "news".

archive.vn/o9nTr