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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Pensions and gender

13 replies

doubleduvetset · 25/01/2021 12:57

This is an area I work in, but I haven't seen anything published in the industry (yet) so was wondering if anyone has come across it. I'm also not confident about raising it in work just in case!

When you have a pension fund, when you retire, you purchase a pension - a guaranteed income. The rates for this (annuity rates) depend on a few things - if the income will increase in payment, what is the increase rate, is there a guarantee period, a spouse's pension etc

Sex determines the rate also. As women live longer than men, the rate of guaranteed income that a woman gets, is less than a man of the same age. (huge amt of empirical evidence for this - there's a reason actuaries work in the insurance industry and are paid lots of money for complex calculations!)

So, what's stopping me from declaring just before retirement age that I am a man, and therefore should receive the male annuity rate?

I imagine that as this could cost pension providers a LOT of money, they will have an argument against it. Also, I can imagine that as this would result in a loss of income for TW purchasing an annuity, that some of them nearly all won't declare their TW status when purchasing their pension...

OP posts:
Beamur · 25/01/2021 13:00

An excellent question.
One I think the pensions industry will really need to make some decisions around. If they haven't already...

VanGoghsDog · 25/01/2021 13:01

Well, it's interesting, but actually hardly anyone buys annuities any more so a bit redundant.

Beamur · 25/01/2021 13:04

Is there still a gap between men and women receiving the state pension?

PinkyParrot · 25/01/2021 13:07

I thought men were living longer as they no longer smoked., so catching up with women.

OneEpisode · 25/01/2021 13:08

There has been a transwoman claiming state pension at the female age. They hadn’t GRCd, they said because they didn’t want to divorce, until after same sex unions came in. They got the state pension backdated.
I can’t find the case now, this is NI, started transition age 60. www.pensionsage.com/pa/Transgender-women-wins-state-pension-back-payments.php

doubleduvetset · 25/01/2021 13:09

I see several annuities per week (and I don't see all the ones that my company sells) so they are definitely still being bought.
(I'm in Ireland so people sometimes still go for an annuity if their retirement lump sum as a multiple of salary is higher than 25% of their fund).
State pension in Ireland is the same whether male or female, I'm referring to private pensions. Not sure about the state pension in the UK but I'd assume it's the same also for M/F.

OP posts:
mintbiscuit · 25/01/2021 13:09
  1. Gender neutral pricing was brought in to stop that for annuities in... 2012? No male vs female rates.
  1. Only c. 10% buy annuities. Pension freedoms of 2015 means you don’t have to buy an annuity. Which for most people are poor value. Majority of people encash or use drawdown.
doubleduvetset · 25/01/2021 13:10

@OneEpisode that's very interesting!

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mintbiscuit · 25/01/2021 13:10

Just seen your next post. No idea what rules are in Ireland but I thought GNP extended to all of Europe. In UK gender is not used.

doubleduvetset · 25/01/2021 13:17

@pinkyparrot they are catching up but haven't fully caught up yet.

Life expectancy
Man aged 65 in 2016 - 18.3 yrs
Woman aged 65 in 2016 - 21 years

@mintbiscuit there's some lack of clarity in that legislation/in the Irish application of it which meant it was applied to life insurance, motor insurance, but not annuities. Might be different in the UK to Ireland. Yes annuities are in the minority now - they are definitely not good value at the moment - but they are still purchased.

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doubleduvetset · 25/01/2021 13:18

@mintbiscuit, sorry, cross posted

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OneEpisode · 25/01/2021 13:19

Gender neutral pricing is an EU thing so the UK -could- choose to change it.
UK State pension retirement ages are being equalised for younger people so the effect will disappear...

boatyardblues · 25/01/2021 13:34

Women now pay higher rates for car insurance despite males being higher risk because unequal treatment of the sexes was tested in court. Perhaps the same logic should be applied to annuities. Suck it up chaps!

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