Nipples!

[Hangingover]

Just musing really....

On social media today there was a news article and the accompanying image was of a slim young woman in a boob tube (actually it was a Chiltern Railways social distancing seat cover - but that's the point of the story - so very thin, flimsy material). Obviously there was a flurry of comments from men along the lines of "bit cold out I see", "she needs some plasters" or "looks a bit nippy lol" with dozens and dozen of likes.

.....do they genuinely not realise that if they wore a thin layer of skintight fabric with nothing else underneath you'd probably be able to see their nipples just as much? Or is it just an excuse to shame women about their bodies? Because it does feel like a shaming thing to say. I remember at school even the girls who'd no need of a bra wanted to wear cropped tops because of boys teasing them.

I remember starting a thread on MN about four years ago that went something like this: "I've realised can see my nipples in the outfit I've got on for work today (thin 32aa bralette) does it matter?" and got the balance of "not an issue" and some negative comments such as "unprofessional", "distracting" and "attention seeking"

I follow lots of surfers and outdoor swimmers on Instagram and I've noticed if they post a pic in a bathing suit they sometimes write; "If you can see my nipples, it's because I've got em!" which one the one hand is cool but also shouldn't be necessary...

What going on? Why are we so weird about women's nipples?

Have a good weekend everyone.

What going on? Why are we so weird about women's nipples?

I have been wondering about this for years so placemarking to see what others have to say.

Only thing I can think of - something to do with being British or American? It's really noticeable for example that when you go to France a lot of French women don't seem to wear a bra and adverts in the street with "topless" (I hate that word) models advertising showers etc. are commonplace and nobody bats an eyelid. (Apart from British teenage boys on holiday!)

I used to work in magazine production, handling advertising copy. One of the criteria that made an ad unsuitable for a 'family' magazine was visible female nipples. (No problem with male nipples, though.)

Some ad campaigns, typically for perfumes, would try and display as much flesh as they could. I became very skilled at spotting where nipples had been airbrushed out. Sometimes I had to fight my corner that an ad did not meet our editorial standards. One particularly offended me, where the model's nipples should clearly have been appearing between her index and middle fingers, but the ad sales execs were insisting that they were hidden by her other fingers. Really? Maybe a woman in her 50s would have her nipples that low, but not a young, slender model. I was vindicated a couple of weeks later when one of them brought in a copy of GQ our Men's Health our something similar, with the non-airbrushed version of the ad in it.

But what really offended me was the dishonesty of it all. The commodification of the female body, the pretence that the sexual arousal implied in the arch of her naked back was fine, but that there was something wrong with a nipple. So we'll just get rid of her nipples, and then we can pretend that she's not sexually aroused or arousing.

Because the truth is that the only times you saw breasts in an ad was when it was selling sex in some form or another.

So, yes, female nipples mean sex to most onlookers. They don't care that male nipples and female nipples respond equally to cold. Male nipples just don't scream SEX to people in the way female nipples do.

"Only thing I can think of - something to do with being British or American? It's really noticeable for example that when you go to France a lot of French women don't seem to wear a bra and adverts in the street with "topless" (I hate that word) models advertising showers etc. are commonplace and nobody bats an eyelid. (Apart from British teenage boys on holiday!"

Things are changing in France now. Topless sunbathing is becoming less common. I think I read it was to do with people taking photos everywhere.

"What going on? Why are we so weird about women's nipples?"

Women's breasts are considered sexual in our culture so nipples are too. That's all.
And it's not just Britain and America either.

Dilbertian that's a super interesting insight....I'd never ever thought about who is in charge of keeping nipples out of magazines!!

@Gwenhwyfar

"What going on? Why are we so weird about women's nipples?"

Women's breasts are considered sexual in our culture so nipples are too. That's all.
And it's not just Britain and America either.

I don't think it's really that simple, that boobs = sex, therefore nipples = sex.

Nipples are erogenous zones for both sexes. They respond physically to sexual arousal, and they can be stimulated to trigger sexual arousal. And they provide a very visible indication of arousal, particularly in women.

Unfortunately there is no difference in the appearance of a nipple that is responding to the influence of sexual arousal or of cold (that's why ice-cubes are used in filming). Any person with common sense knows that nipple-bumps in a T-shirt on the person walking towards you probably indicate that they've just walked past the aircon, but that doesn't stop the testosterone from going "Phwoar - she's feeling hot!"

Women's breasts are considered sexual in our culture so nipples are too. That's all.
And it's not just Britain and America either.

It’s a while since I’ve breastfed, but back when I did, I can recall there was a difference in attitude between the US and the UK. Though back then, the UK wasn’t perfect, it was still widely accepted that anyone shaming a woman for breastfeeding in public was an old-fashioned prude, whereas in the US, even otherwise sensible women seemed to think breasts were sexual and therefore anyone breastfeeding, particularly in public, was perverted or an exhibitionist.

Not sure whether things have changed for the worse in the UK. Misogyny does seem to have gained ground since then. But it’s the ultimate irony if women breastfeeding is offensive at a time when children playing with leather-clad “puppy-play” fetishists is applauded.

For some reason it seems to hardwired into some men's brains that it's OK to make comments about a woman's nipples. As the OP says, in many cases it starts at school and some men don't grow out of it!

Why was a semi naked young girl the front pic for an article about social distancing on trains?

I think there is a Britishness to the comments.

The men viewing the picture got a little sexual thrill and felt the need to do or say something with the feeling. Most will have dealt with the feelings in private. Some will have reacted in a very British way to a surprise oooh-eh-up moment: crack a joke. A few used the comments section to crack the joke rather than saying it to their mate.

Women tend to think twice before commenting publicly in a comedy phwoarr way because if we do then random creeps decide we are dirty slags who are up for it with them. Men can do it safely.

I found some of the comments much more funny than shaming. I can take women's rights seriously while still giggling at boobies, sexual puns, juvenile drawing of knobs and silly British innuendo (in whose end oh?!).

www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-55591520

It was a woman selling clothes made from discarded seat covers, not allowed now as presumably she can't prove she didn't steal the covers.

I don't know why there is such a fuss about nipples though, it's completely normal for them to be visible through t-shirts or similar, and men are just being ridiculous if they think that means a woman is aroused.

"It’s a while since I’ve breastfed, but back when I did, I can recall there was a difference in attitude between the US and the UK. Though back then, the UK wasn’t perfect, it was still widely accepted that anyone shaming a woman for breastfeeding in public was an old-fashioned prude, whereas in the US, even otherwise sensible women seemed to think breasts were sexual and therefore anyone breastfeeding, particularly in public, was perverted or an exhibitionist."

Yes, Facebook (American of course) banned photos of women breastfeeding.

Most will have dealt with the feelings in private.

Is that what they're calling it now?

I am braless the majority of the time. I have very small breasts and find bras uncomfortable, but I am quite conscious about my nipples showing! It's fine in winter with jumpers etc, but in the summer I'm more likely to wear a bra just so my nipples don't show - it doesn't help that my nipples are quite big.

I don't like that I feel I have to hide them. I think it's unfair and I have no need or desire to wear a bra most of the time, but I'd feel extremely uncomfortable to walk around with them on display in case I got leery stares or comments. Women's breasts/nipples are just seen as more of a sexual thing than men's are. I think that's why there is still a lot of stigma around breastfeeding, particularly in public spaces.

Snap Baggo I'm 34aa and I literally only wear a bra to stop nipples showing

Why was a semi naked young girl the front pic for an article about social distancing on trains?

Not a girl. Fashion student stole social distancing seat covers from railway station and tried to sell them as edgey boob tubes on Depop apparently!

Didn't see the original link, but over the weekend saw a video posted by Toyah Wilcox (aged 60 and looking amazing).
She was wearing a very tight top with very obvious nipples showing, and the fb link and youtube video I saw had very similar comments.
I'm not sure about shaming women, a lot of the comments were "complimentary", but I don't think they care whether or not it makes women uncomfortable.

Like PPs, I have small breasts and very large nipples, which I don't like to show. But I'm sure a model posing for a photoshoot isn't accidentally showing them either.

Dunno, but my ex-H once shamed me for my nipples being visible through the top I was wearing by telling me her was embarrassed by it and that people could see. (I'd decided to go braless and it was a bit colder than I'd expected.) That made me paranoid for years afterwards until I finally decided I didn't give a shit. (Mind you he also made me feel really ashamed about wearing a short dress once, despite wearing opaque tights with it. He was an arsehole.)
Meanwhile there's a bloke I work with who sometimes has nipples showing through his top, bet no one says anything to him about it. (I find it sexy, but then I fancy him anyway. )

It's odd, really, that nipples are seen as sexy only in women. In both men and women nipples serve a sexual function. They don't serve any function other than sexual in men. In women they also have their primary purpose of breastfeeding. And yet the patriarchy decides that men may wander round completely bare chested with more freedom than women can go braless, but wearing a top. Hmmm.

Maybe it's because they move? Movement draws attention. Men's nipples generally stay still.

Interesting that religions generally say that women must cover themselves because men can't control their lustful thoughts and deeds. Not only must women cover themselves, but the modern(ish) take on it is that women must not jiggle. Anywhere.

I have small breasts and remember being bullied/shamed into buying a bra. I had literally no breasts but because the school uniform was white shirt(why, exactly?) my nipples were visible. The girl doing the shaming was a right cow about it, but kept going, I'm helping you.
I had no breasts, no idea about sex, was 11 and yet somehow it was my problem.
I don't wear a bra everyday now. People can eff off with their judgement.

@nocoolnamesleft

It's odd, really, that nipples are seen as sexy only in women. In both men and women nipples serve a sexual function. They don't serve any function other than sexual in men. In women they also have their primary purpose of breastfeeding. And yet the patriarchy decides that men may wander round completely bare chested with more freedom than women can go braless, but wearing a top. Hmmm.

Yes, but on women they're attached to breasts, which are considered sexy by most western cultures.

I think the thing that bothers me about those kinds of comments is the performance of arousal by groups of men. It feels a bit like bullying. I have no problem with a man saying he’s attracted to someone, or that he finds a picture of a woman exciting, but I strongly dislike men pointing out a woman (even in a photo) to each other and objectifying her. It feels quite threatening. I sometimes think it’s supposed to. So for me it’s not about nipples specifically but the behaviour in general.

This is astonishing.

And the usual (yawn} comments from men about ambient temperature.