'The year of Karen' - Guardian article

[ArabellaScott]

More tedious pish on the 'Karen' phenomenon.

An article that directly equates women calling the police (however unjustifiably, all they did was call the police, hardly an illegal act) with a policeman murdering a man. Because of course the two are equivalent. In fact, I think the article's logic is that the woman who has called the police has actually directly caused the death of the man - it's almost as though the policeman disappears and is absolved, the blame shifted neatly from the (utterly fucking monstrous) actions of the policeman to the (perhaps racist, presumably highly-strung) actions of the woman. (Of course these were two completely unrelated incidents, but never miss a chance to use the correlation = causation fallacy when it helps your argument).

Quoting the last particularly nasty paras so you don't have to read the article:

'Complaints about Karen being sexist were noteworthy mostly for how neatly they re-enacted the Karen dynamic. Confronted with evidence of their own agency and complicity, some white women responded by reasserting their victimhood.

What I’ve found especially useful about Karen memes is the way they’ve given willing white women a tool with which to assess their own behavior and, if they want, improve it. My own mother, who is white, has on rare occasions demonstrated behavior that verged on the Karen-esque. This summer, for the first time, she acknowledged some of those Karen tendencies to me and stated her intention not to act like that any more – a conversation I’m not sure we would have had absent the meme.

Williams recalled similar conversations with white friends, and offered three simple rules to avoid being a Karen. One: recognize the privilege and history of being a white woman in this society. Two: avoid calling the police on people of color unless someone is in imminent danger of harm. And three: “Understand that it’s just not always about you, period. People are not out to get you for the most part, people are not trying to hurt you or harm your property or make you uncomfortable,” she said. “You’re not that special, Karen. You’re not that special.”

By people, presumably the writer means 'men', but it seems striking to me how men have been absolved of all responsibility here. The demon is clearly the writer's mother, and all women who dared to think they were 'special'.

This is pure, naked, misogyny. I would not want to be a woman or girl in the US at the moment.

The only time the use of the word "Karen" raised a smile was when someone described Elon Musk as a "space Karen" on Twitter after he whinged about his coronavirus test results. (Story here: www.standard.co.uk/news/world/elon-musk-space-karen-coronavirus-b71634.html) I still don't approve of the term but it was funny in context.

A quite surprising number of Mumsnetters are happy to use Karen as an insult. Very disconcerting.

I'm comparing education in this country to education 10 years ago. Changes I have seen with my own eyes in my own field. Yes, of course we have publicly funded education, that doesn't mean it's not being underfunded.
I have worked in Malaysia teaching so do know something of these things. Just because there were children there not able to get an education period doesn't mean I accept steamrollering of education here.
Anyway, don't want to hijack the thread as that wasn't my intention. Just merely pointing out that the left is eating itself.

'Karen' just translates to: How dare women exist beyond an age where they are deemed fuckable?

Two: avoid calling the police on people of color unless someone is in imminent danger of harm

Oh, thank goodness The Guardian has put me right! I had no idea I shouldn't whip out my mobile to dial 999 whenever I see someone who isn't white.

One: recognize the privilege and history of being a white woman in this society.

Has she actually read any history? That’ll be a ‘no’.

Two: avoid calling the police on people of color unless someone is in imminent danger of harm.

I will NOT be giving that advice pile of shit to
my DDs. What so the police only arrive once the harm has happened? I have no idea about the individual case she is using to excuse police/male violence and blame women, but women are physically weaker and sadly women have a need and a right to be on guard - irrespective of who the man is - and should act accordingly.

Hello officer, my wife's been murdered
Officer: when did it happen
Oh about 3pm she noticed a man following her but didn't feel the need to run or call the police as she's not that special
Officer: phew, fair cop. For a moment there I thought we had a real murder there. It's just a Karen though so not a real murder.

Luckily I’ve never had to call the police.

But if someone was breaking into my house you betcha I’d call. Are we supposed to scrutinise the burglar and decide whether we are more privileged than he is before picking up the phone?

@TheBuffster the answer is that we have so many more people. Huge amounts of immigration plus were already crowded. When many of those people are paying minimal taxes but getting maximum benefits it's not going to end well. The world has changed and socialism doesn't work so well any more. People want their Amazon prime and ubers and cheap primark clothing and to have sky tv, a £1000 iPhone and a Michael kors handbag even if they earn minimum wage. 10 years ago those things didn't exist either.

Not the forum for this.
As I said before I am not going to derail the thread.
I just brought it up as relevant to the general publication output.

Karen is a word used to tell women to shut up, and pretend you're in the right.

Mostly white women, but make no mistake, the misogynistic men who use it will happily use it to silence any black woman who disagrees with them, too.

What a joke. As a young woman in my 20s, I feel disgusted that older women (the people I have always looked up to and aspired to be like) are being treated this way. My generation and the generation after mine are doing so much irreversible damage and because most of them are sheep, I wouldn't be able to say all of this. What actually happened to "respect your elders"? Did that fade away too?

@DandyMandy these days it's completely acceptable to save all of your hatred for white women post 40. The ageism I see all the time is astounding - on mumsnet and in real life. Some younger men can be respectful but some of that is because of their older woman fantasies. The women their age are openly disgusted by this. How can anyone want an old hag. Then there's men our own age. The media.

Ok if you're a mum doing mum things for people. Otherwise it's a bit like having leprosy 😁. Which of course has faded away!

It's weird too because I remember being in my 20s snd 30s very well and would actually have a lot in common with many of the people saying these things. Just as well there are still nice people like you around. They do exist it's just more acceptable to vent your (probably covid related) spleen onto 'safe' targets.

This stuff is racist as well as sexist. Apparently it's only white women who have "agency" now? Tell that to my mother in law! Patronising, offensive rubbish.

@TheBuffster

Think I would throw a festive strop if the child that I grew and nurtured called me a Karen. Same as if they called me a bitch.

My children said ‘ok karen’ to me once

Once

Maybe socialism will work better now that we no longer have freedom of movement? I have been searching for anything at all positive or hopeful about Brexit, is this a potential silver lining? Like some say about Nordic countries can we now expect greater community cohesion and people will be happier to pay higher taxes for better state run public services?

Anyway back to the point, name calling is never a positive or constructive communication tactic.

Should we reclaim the name? As a preemptive strike we could wear t-shirts with Karen written across the front in big letters. Or even “Proud Karen”.

I really think that to use a given name as an insult is low and seriously lacking in the kindness and compassion which are paid lip service to by so many who resort to name calling for lack of anything more coherent to contribute.

The Guardian jumped the shark years ago. Telling women what circumstances they can call the police under is a new, woman hating low.

Telling women what circumstances they can call the police under is a new, woman hating low.

This is true. I wonder if a newspaper article telling women

avoid calling the police

is actionable by IPCC? Are they captured, too?

[quote SueDeNimm]@DandyMandy these days it's completely acceptable to save all of your hatred for white women post 40. The ageism I see all the time is astounding - on mumsnet and in real life. Some younger men can be respectful but some of that is because of their older woman fantasies. The women their age are openly disgusted by this. How can anyone want an old hag. Then there's men our own age. The media.

Ok if you're a mum doing mum things for people. Otherwise it's a bit like having leprosy 😁. Which of course has faded away!

It's weird too because I remember being in my 20s snd 30s very well and would actually have a lot in common with many of the people saying these things. Just as well there are still nice people like you around. They do exist it's just more acceptable to vent your (probably covid related) spleen onto 'safe' targets.[/quote]
Thank you. I really appreciate your words and insight. I'm baffled by the whole thing because these young women and men will one day be in their 40s themselves. There's nothing wrong with being 40+ (I don't even look upon that as older really). I feel like people just continue to abandon logic as they see fit, but one day it will startle them into realising how silly they're being. Funny how they've got no problem with their elders when they're doing everything for them aka being their parents.

@DandyMandy haha very wise words indeed. No problem with the money and clothes washing 😁.

We will all be old and not feel it. And if you live with a vile attitude towards people who are older than you one day that attitude will be directed within and that is a pretty dire fate. To live feeling the way you used to about others about yourself.

You however will not. You will be happy because you simply never got into it. Your mum must be enormously proud of you

Woke politics positioning women as lower down the pecking order than black men. Absolute disregard of safeguarding for women.
The Guardian unquestioningly imports US politics to the UK even though it doesn't have any relevance, our police are not armed with guns.

I honestly think the only possible response to that article is ‘just fuck off’.
Plus, mean spirited I know, but there’s a part of me that finds it a bit entertaining to think of the very nasty shock awaiting the young women who support this ageism and misogyny.....when they grow older & realise there’s more to life than supporting men, only to find themselves at the end of what they’ve been dishing out. What goes around....
Oh, and the writer’s poor mother! She deserves a medal.

@FestiveStrop

My DC would absolutely call their dad a Karen if he acted in an overly entitled way and threaten an argument as repercussion. Their generation see it as applying to anyone with that mindset. My DD and DS both have explained this to me as I was interested in how ubiquitous it has become.

Maybe you could have a conversation with your children about how dangerous, not to mention ill- informed and displaying lack of critical and original thought it is, to latch to and to a sweeping generalisation.

I 'd be embarrassed if my son did this.

@Chicchicchicchiclana

A quite surprising number of Mumsnetters are happy to use Karen as an insult. Very disconcerting.

They are indeed. I've had exhausting arguments on that.

[quote SueDeNimm]@DandyMandy haha very wise words indeed. No problem with the money and clothes washing 😁.

We will all be old and not feel it. And if you live with a vile attitude towards people who are older than you one day that attitude will be directed within and that is a pretty dire fate. To live feeling the way you used to about others about yourself.

You however will not. You will be happy because you simply never got into it. Your mum must be enormously proud of you [/quote]
Thank you. You're very kind. Maybe this is a different topic, but I don't understand all this hatred for the middle class. I'm working class myself, but I would never judge someone purely for their class status. I don't understand it at all. It's not like anyone gets to choose which class they're born into.

Just realised I failed to include a link to the article in the original post.

For some reason am not that inclined to add one now ... but I just had a look at the writer's Twitter, one comment is:

' it’s apparent you are unaware of the root of the name in media as it started as a derogatory meaning by the Incel community to refer to women who their members found unacceptable or unwilling to have sex. People be aware of this root!'

Is that true?