Women's voices getting deeper

[ArabellaScott]

I just stumbled on this, thought it was really interesting, article from 2018:

'Women today speak at a deeper pitch than their mothers or grandmothers would have done, thanks to the changing power dynamics between men and women'

www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20180612-the-reasons-why-womens-voices-are-deeper-today

Does that include the vocal fry?
Started in the west coast of the US and subtly spreading here?

If we mention vocal-fry (which I learned about on this very board) we get jumped on for criticising women.

I mention it because it's done in a deeper voice than the person's normal voice so could be the explanation for this new phenomenon.

Cross post!

Margaret Thatcher seems to have deliberately adopted a lower speaking voice but she sounds inauthentic. I think women today are more likely to be using their real voice.
The higher pitch used in the past can be interpreted as a sign of stress and anxiety today.

Back when I was in sales, mostly on the phone, I read loads on the subject and all the advice (particularly women specific) was to drop your voice a few semi tones and speak more slowly. This apparently gives of an authoritative vibe or some shit.

I then took up smoking (not to get more sales!), and my voice has 'naturally' got deeper. I definitely still use my lower voice in certain situations with men. In my mind, particularly during even mild conflict, the natural inclination to speak faster and higher pitched turns people off, leaning more towards the sexist 'shrill' and 'hysterical' terms rather than people taking you seriously. I do think there's something in it, rightly or wrongly.

I had to look up vocal fry as I only know it as a singing technique. I heard some examples and it mostly sounds like that stereotypical middle America teen/early 20s, Paris Hilton type wannabe. I can see why it would mean you're not taken seriously!

I spent a long time in academia giving seminars in majority male environments and trying to project authority to groups of students - my speaking voice is pitched fairly low (without me consciously thinking about it), which is interesting given that my singing voice is actually soprano!

(No vocal fry from me - I find it the vocal equivalent of nails down a blackboard.)

Don't forget Elizabeth Holmes (who turned out to be a massive Silicon Valley scammer) who also pretended her voice was much lower than it really is.

Sebastian there was a fascinating documentary about Holmes and her company on TV not long ago. The voice was weirdly mesmerising in a way, but quite how anyone could have been taken in by her baffles me - it sounded so utterly bizarre. Her university professor said she never used to talk like that when she knew her pre-Theranos.

I have noticed that when I try too hard to deepen or raise my vocal pitch, I get throat pain.
I also know that a lot of women talk more in their natural voices. I have observed this myself.
I never tried to raise my vocal pitch, though. It hurt my voice.

Yes- I watched brief encounter for the first time three other month. The women's voices are so high pitched!

This is a phenomenon that is not recent, it's been gradually happening for decades.

Male as default strikes again.

And it's mostly just a gradual subconscious unnoticed change.

Noting that when I talk to babies and puppies the pitch goes up involuntarily. I wonder how much we adjust our pitch unconsciously depending on situation? Guessing quite a lot.

My mother complained about her voice being too low until I asked her why on earth that would be a problem - I believe she was criticised as a child/teen for having an 'unladylike' low singing voice. So there seems to have been a cultural pressure to have a higher pitch back then, that I wasn't ever aware of.

I suppose it's related directly to sexist extrapolating bullshit on male/female vocal pitches - women are generally higher therefore the higher pitched the voice the more feminine.

When I worked in hospitality, the boss used a high pitched voice to talk with customers (which was easy for the rest of us to imitate unconsciously). Privately she would crack jokes or gossip in much lower tones. So I associate women's voices with babies, animals and 'welcome'. I associate lower women's voices with sexiness, the classic come-on voice (did I just make that up?). My elderly relative only hears male voices, the higher pitch of women's is out of range. So a lower voice is one more easily heard. It isn't just about conforming to the default male (IMO). Vocal-fry reminds me of the Australian uptick that everyone did 15 years ago. Remember when adult women speaking in baby voices was cool? (I was probably a teenager). Thank god that ended.

Could it be seen the other way round? That women of previous generations tended to have higher voices because that was seen as more 'feminine'?

I'm also wondering how class comes into it.

I'm also wondering how class comes into it

I'm sure it does. Certainly where I live in Liverpool. The archetypal 'scouse' accent is high pitched, for both men and women. Some of that may come from the Irish lyricism of the dialect; although it has certainly got ever higher over the years to become almost a caricature. Of course, though, not everyone in the city speaks with a 'scouse' accent.

I've long been interested in how certain languages have different tones and depth of pitch. It seems to me that Italian and Indian women each have deeper toned voices, whereas your archetypal U.S valley girl has quite a high pitched sound.

The pitch of my voice is higher when I'm showing emotion, I was told to control it to a lower pitch during teacher training as it's more authoritative.

But I'd say it's possibly six of one (modern women attempting a lower pitch), and half a dozen of the other (women of the past attempting a higher pitch).

Could be, sign on!

I don't think there's a class aspect to it. There's loads of studies going back ages. It seems to correlate with women getting more into male dominated workplaces.

' My elderly relative only hears male voices, the higher pitch of women's is out of range. So a lower voice is one more easily heard.'

Yeeessssss. My grand dad could only hear male voices quite a lot as well. He was a raging sexist though

Your hearing goes at both ends doesn't it? High and low. Dunno. Not convinced. I'm not at all sure the driver for this change is hearing impaired older people!

I'll try to find some articles.

BBC 2018

www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20180612-the-reasons-why-womens-voices-are-deeper-today

'Cecilia Pemberton at the University of South Australia studied the voices of two groups of Australian women aged 18–25 years. The researchers compared archival recordings of women talking in 1945 with more recent recordings taken in the early 1990s. The team found that the “fundamental frequency” had dropped by 23 Hz over five decades – from an average of 229 Hz (roughly an A# below middle C) to 206 Hz (roughly a G#). That’s a significant, audible difference.

The researchers had carefully selected their samples to control for any potential demographic factors: the women were all university students and none of them smoked. The team also considered the fact that members of the more recent group from the 1990s were using the contraceptive pill, which could have led to hormonal changes that could have altered the vocal chords. Yet the drop in pitch remained even when the team excluded those women from their sample.'

I have a naturally deeper than average voice (I used to prop up the tenors in the school choir ), and it's served me well over the years. I get compliments on it, and people seem to take me seriously when I need them to.

I wonder if there's any evidence for men's voices simultaneously becoming higher. I seem to hear far more men speaking with more traditionally feminine tones and patterns, but that may be just me imagining it.

Some hitch pitched female voices can really grate. They tend to use such voices on supermarket announcements, and the 'child care' tones can be really off -putting, and somehow a little patronising.

There is one voice which I simply cannot stand, and it is that of Alex Jones on BBC's 'The One Show'. Squawky; like nails across a blackboard.

Do you remember the first time you ever heard David Beckham's voice? Not at all what you would have expected.

Certainly the typical male vocal range, as with the typical male body language etc. Is associated more with serious/ has credibility/ etc than womens. And even between men, the taller men with the deeper voices command attention more easily.

It's probably a throwback ape thing tbh. Like how people get out of the way of my DH on the pavement without realising they're doing it. And I'm expected to give way. Because he's a great big fella and I'm a little woman.

It also reminds me of a ridiculous video we watched once about 'power poses'. Essentially if you make yourself larger and take up space you feel more powerful. ???. I'm little. I'm well aware of how things work with my space thanks. I'm never going to be a big gorilla. Hence I have other tools to command attention/ be seen as credible.

The best bit was when sitting in a chair, fill it. Legs wide arms wide etc. I said. Erm. Right off the bat, given that lots of women in our office wear skirts. I can see a bit of an issue here

That so many people see women's voices as annoying is always interesting. Not just this thread but in general.

How we speak is way more picked apart than men.

Men do vocal fry as well but you'd never think it from the articles etc!

One interesting thing I read ages ago said that teenage girls are the drivers for changes in language, modes of speech etc, and of course languages are always evolving. The patterns they develop often end up becoming universal. But rather than getting recognised as innovators, they get criticised for it. Sounds about right.

My voice goes up when I'm pissed. Loads.

I have a naturally low deep voice for a woman. I hate it. I will make a conscious effort to raise it if I'm meeting new people or being recorded, as I hate hearing it. I think it makes me come across as harsh and, frankly, mannish.