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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Elective Mastectomies for the Non Binary

61 replies

OhHolyJesus · 29/12/2020 17:43

I'm sharing this as I found it interesting that there isn't a single supportive comment in the post. Not one.

Dr Gallagher is known to some here already so it will come as no surprise that this woman is attempting comedy with "Teetus Deletus".

www.facebook.com/1914451722102925/posts/2846599405554814/?d=n

Also I don't support, but I do sort of see the point of elective mastectomies for trans men (if you think you're male you not go by to want to appear female in any way) but why is this required, or even preferred, for women who identify as neither male nor female.

I'm not being flippant but they don't just remove one breast, to sort of demonstrate that you are in between male and female, both both breast are removed to appear more male but you're non binary? I don't get it. Why can't you be non binary with breasts?

OP posts:
Melroses · 29/12/2020 17:53

If you are female, then any sort of 'trans identity' seems to involve mastectomy. It is the way.

If you are female and a man, then that does not involve a penis, it is again mastectomy.

UppityPuppity · 29/12/2020 17:59

Why can't you be non binary with breasts?

Agree with the question. My answer is because man is the default?

Although in my naivety, I always thought non-binary was about not accepting gender stereotypes (most people including me) not pretending we are hermaphroditic part male/female. But who’s denying biology...!

SirSamuelVimes · 29/12/2020 18:04

Internal misogyny, innit?

gardenbird48 · 29/12/2020 18:06

I saw this on Facebook 😬 it just looks awful. The teenager I know is nb but that seems to involve T and a double mastectomy. The mum has helped promote the crowd funder.

I realise she must be in a hugely difficult situation and I don’t know what conversations have taken place (I do have personal experience of her inappropriate behaviour) - I do wonder how much she is being ‘held to ransom’ by by the affirm or be cut off side of the ideology.

HecatesCats · 29/12/2020 18:10

I don't understand the difference between being non-binary and being a transman if both involve mastectomies and testosterone?

ACatWhoBinds · 29/12/2020 18:22

I feel like I can offer something to this thread. You can be enby and have breasts, it depends on the person and whether they have significant dysphoria over it. I know non binary people who still have breasts. It's a personal/individual thing and decision.

I personally do not have sufficient dysphoria to think the benefits of top surgery outweigh the downsides. I bind when I need to but also try to have days off when I don't feel as bad. My dysphoria waxes and wains

Blubellsarebells · 29/12/2020 18:23

On top of the 'joke' being really bad and sick, that op looks like it wasn't well done at all.
Not something to be proud of.

Blubellsarebells · 29/12/2020 18:26

Why would you treat a mental health problem with such invasive physical interventions?
One of the comments on the post "do you offer gastric band operations to anorexics?"
Quite.

HecatesCats · 29/12/2020 18:34

Thank you for responding ACat, so is it a sliding scale from non binary to transman? Why, if a person decides to have a double mastectomy and take testosterone, are they still non binary?

nauticant · 29/12/2020 18:45

The joking rings alarm bells with me. She'll be learning that raising her profile in this way is not a good idea:

twitter.com/dr_sgallagher/status/1340238632557240322

www.facebook.com/pg/drsidhbhgallagher/reviews/

But sadly there'll be many very young women who will go down this route before sense returns:

Although this is through my mom's account, I'm leaving a review from my perspective. My name is Connor, I'm 16 and I had surgery on August 12th, 2020.

TyroTerf · 29/12/2020 20:45

both both breast are removed to appear more male but you're non binary? I don't get it. Why can't you be non binary with breasts?

I'd hazard a guess that it's not so much a case of wanting to appear more male as wanting to appear less female.

It's that whole boobs=woman thing. Kinda hard to get people to take you seriously as definitely-not-a-woman when you've got 'em.

On a similar note, the relevant difference between a transman having a double mastectomy and an enby having one, is the former's after a man-chest whereas the latter's after a not-woman-chest.

xxyzz · 29/12/2020 21:16

Very sad. No different to previous trends for young women self-harming or becoming anorexic as they struggle to cope with turning into young adult women, with all the sexism and sexual harrassment or worse that can involve.

My heart bleeds for them. They need support, confidence, a female support group, and fabulous older female role models.

And what they're getting is...dangerous and unnecessary surgery of their lovely healthy bodies. :( Maybe lifelong infertility.

But unlike the cutting scars, or the anorexia, there's no way for their bodies to 'heal' from this, once they're a bit older, and have grown up a bit and come to love their female bodies.

It's heartbreaking. :(

LouHotel · 29/12/2020 21:20

I find this really depressing. I've been breastfeeding (3 kids in total) for 7 years, my breasts no longer hold a sexual component for me instead they instill an innate power of what I've accomplished.

I know breastfeeding rates will never be that high in the UK but it's the idea young women are deleting parts of their body designed to nurture and give life.

HopeClearwater · 29/12/2020 21:26

Who the hell performs these mastectomies? They need to be struck off.

OldCrone · 29/12/2020 21:27

Do any non binary males have surgery? Or is it only female non binaries who have to modify their bodies?

NotBadConsidering · 29/12/2020 21:41

OldCrone and I have linked this before, but a “non-binary body” also includes a prepubertal female body that has been perpetuated into adulthood ad infinitum by puberty blockers. In this article, they weigh up the ethnics and decide it’s ok. No mastectomy required then. HmmAngry

jme.bmj.com/content/46/11/743

xxyzz · 29/12/2020 21:45

Is the aim of non-binary to look like pre-pubertal, ie like a child?

Original poster
OhHolyJesus · 29/12/2020 21:58

So due to a lack of support I assume, all comments on the Facebook post have been deleted.

OP posts:
nauticant · 29/12/2020 22:16

I'd hazard a guess that it's not so much a case of wanting to appear more male as wanting to appear less female.

Yes. If you want to understand the 4400% figure it's because young women are running away from what they perceive being a woman to mean. It's not about being men, it's about being non-women.

FemaleAndLearning · 29/12/2020 22:28

My daughter, 13, knows a non binary girl and a girl who is trans (wants to be male). It seems to me that they are both just gender non conforming and have short hair. I've had short hair virtually all my life. At the beginning of puberty I could be mistaken for a boy, but not very often usually on my paper round!

Non binary today gets my goat you can't be non male or non female you are one or the other! You aren't some new species. What does it mean to your life to be non male or non female? Who cares and who needs to know?
I think non binary was what we in the 80s would have called androgenous, but I can't remember any girls wanting to cut their breasts off.
Totally agree with post up thread that girls need more support to get through puberty, they need good role models and they need to be taught self love.
I didn't like my body growing up and have struggled with my weight since a teen, but growing up today seems like so much more pressure.
Girls need something that will allow them to stand up and be proud to be female. Breasts in all their shapes and sizes are amazing biology.
Having seen some photos of large breasts that have been in binders I can see why a girl may want them removed as they are so deformed and outside of normal. If a girl starts binding and takes off her binder at night and doesn't like what she sees maybe the next train of thought is removal even though they are non binary?
Sorry more questions than answers.

NotTerfNorCis · 29/12/2020 22:31

An interesting perspective from a transman: quillette.com/2020/10/06/forget-what-gender-activists-tell-you-heres-what-medical-transition-looks-like/

ACatWhoBinds · 29/12/2020 23:42

@HecatesCats

Thank you for responding ACat, so is it a sliding scale from non binary to transman? Why, if a person decides to have a double mastectomy and take testosterone, are they still non binary?
It's a sliding scale the same way it is the other way, so some non binary people may get no medical interventions for various reasons but still not see themselves as a woman/man - some people may get surgeries/hormones to relieve their discomfort but still not feel like the opposite sex. Fwiw I think everyone should have explorative therapy before choosing to go down that route to make sure it's the right thing to do
Clymene · 30/12/2020 00:47

That doctor's Facebook is a disgrace. And I have never seen such appalling surgery either. I'm guessing she's cheap.

Furx · 30/12/2020 01:45

@xxyzz

Is the aim of non-binary to look like pre-pubertal, ie like a child?
I think this is it

It surely has to be a reaction to the horror of puberty, and wishing to pause in that state of not being a small child with no autonomy, but to remain in that pre adult state. Not having to worry about adult stuff like sexuality (or bills). Fear of an otherwise inoxerable leap into the unknown.

OldCrone · 30/12/2020 01:54

It's a sliding scale the same way it is the other way, so some non binary people may get no medical interventions for various reasons but still not see themselves as a woman/man - some people may get surgeries/hormones to relieve their discomfort but still not feel like the opposite sex.

But everyone is either male or female. How can anyone 'not see themselves as a woman/man'? You are one or the other, even if you'd prefer to be the other or neither. How does it help anyone to pretend that they don't have a sex?

I sort of understand people wanting so much to be the opposite sex that they make radical changes to their bodies, but making no changes whilst declaring that you don't have a sex is just totally beyond my comprehension.