Margaret Atwood Today Programme Radio 4

[gardenbird48]

I can’t listen to the full thing yet but someone might be interested. On this morning.

My husband has just told me that the person speaking (Margaret?) apparently was discussing JKR and mentioned the ‘people who menstruate’ quote and said ‘I’m 81 and I don’t menstruate, am I not a woman?’ We might have the wrong end of the stick here but I can’t imagine there being two 81 yr old ladies on this prog so Margaret is currently chief suspect.

Unfortunately I am not sure of the full context of this yet but it does sound intriguing.

Why do people insist on ‘not understanding’ what she meant. I doubt with Atwood it’s because she’s too stupid to get it ... such a massive disappointment.

I heard that comment and the response from the interviewer was "good point".

No, it's a stupid point. Females menstruate whilst they are fertile then go through menopause. That's part of being a human female.

No it would still seem she’s full on TWAW, ppl soo are not are right wing & it’s just the the kids communicate differently these days 🙄

twitter.com/helensaxby11/status/1343843920556527618?s=21

How disappointing - initially I thought it was someone commenting on the stupidness of the original advert ‘people who menstruate’ but then was confused that it was MA saying it (ever the optimist me) but clearly my optimism is misplaced and Margaret is still promoting her extreme lack of critical thinking.

yes, disappointing
it's such a bad faith argument
nobody, ever, really believes that people think women who don't menstruate are not women.
They know very well that's not what we are saying.

Well it was the least stupid thing I was expecting her to say. She - and the interviewer - knows what the issue was but instead tried to skirt it with a dumb comment.

And what was the Moon woman on for goodness sake?

Atwood doesn't care about women and girls. She lives in a country which is all about cuddly liberal values but scratch the surface and it's a country where transgenderism is weaponised, indigenous people are treated appallingly and is home to PornHub. Her backslapping smuggery makes me nauseous

Her supposedly profound ’I’m 81 and I don’t menstruate, am I not a woman?’ has morphed into ’I’m a man and I don’t menstruate, am I not a woman?’

She really doesn’t get that only women menstruate - it’s really that basic.

I suppose there was no mention about the vitriol targeted at JK because she stated the bleeding obvious and because she is a woman irrespective of her menstruation status

I really don't know what has happened to Margaret Atwood, she used to be as sharp as a tack and came over as intelligent and critical even if you didn't like her writing or agree with her ideas. Now she comes out with this bullshit. Has anyone checked the water in Canada, because people's brains seem to have melted over there.
As for the R4 "journalist" , BBC presenters have been toeing the party line for some tim now.

Really irritating, as was Martha Kearney's response (something like "fair point").
"Only women menstruate" is not the same as "to be a woman you have to currently menstruate". This is simple stuff.
Since Atwood isn't stupid, I can only assume she is being disingenuous.

I don't believe that a highly educated person who has made a long living from using words is unable to see that:

people who menstruate are women =/= if you don't menstruate you're not a woman

It is a wilful and dishonest misrepresentation to avoid engaging with a question they cannot answer. The gender identity ideology is filled with all kinds of dishonesty like this to make untangling it beyond the patience of most people.

And what was the Moon woman on for goodness sake?

moonfestival.co.uk/product/maverick-women-and-the-moon/

Oh look, it's Atwood advertising on Radio 4 a paid gig she does.

Moxn (pronounce: Moon): screening and Q&A
Moxn is a visual poem and surrealistic short film about body and Identity transformations of womxn guided by the cycles of the moon. Within a surreal space, the state of the body is never constant but constantly wanes and transforms.
The titel refers to the spelling of WOMXN, a more inclusive, progressive term that sheds light on prejudice and discrimination and institutional barriers womxn face but also includes trans women and women of colour.

Pxss Mx x bxcket...

The interviewer is the one at fault. We know what Atwood thinks - an interviewer's job is to challenge.

And as for the woman talking about women and non binary people (so both sexes then, doll?)

^ Moxn is a visual poem and surrealistic short film about body and Identity transformations of womxn guided by the cycles of the moon. Within a surreal space, the state of the body is never constant but constantly wanes and transforms.
The titel refers to the spelling of WOMXN, a more inclusive, progressive term that sheds light on prejudice and discrimination and institutional barriers womxn face but also includes trans women and women of colour.^

Hmph, pcos has meant I've never been remotely 'guided by the moon' and sure as heck I'm not now. What an awful, non-inclusive notion.

I don't disagree that 'womxn' "sheds light on prejudice and discrimination and institutional barriers" that women face... just not at all in the way they imagine.

The non-binary people of colour rubbish was Bernardine Evaristo interviewing Liv Little of gal-dem.

The titel refers to the spelling of WOMXN, a more inclusive, progressive term that sheds light on prejudice and discrimination and institutional barriers womxn face but also includes trans women and women of colour.

Comparing women of colour to men who say they are women? How "progressive".

I've just listened again. It's about 8:44 (16 min before end of today show).

MA is asked about JKR. She has just been talking about importance of free speech, science, questioning & backing things up with evidence.

When MA is questioned about sex & gender she talks of "the science of gender" as evidenced in this article linked via her twitter:

twitter.com/margaretatwood/status/1280262917506641922?s=21

www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-new-science-of-sex-and-gender/

She's lost her freaking mind if she considers this evidence of anything.

I'm not looking for a sling do I can collect my jaw up off the floor and continue my day.

"...... sheds light on prejudice and discrimination and institutional barriers womxn face but also includes trans women and women of colour."

How quickly people revert to racism to back up their screwy gender ideology

The message that ran through the whole of today's Today program, that Margaret Atwood edited, was about science and listening and how people have been saying things for years and no one listened until it was too late and now we must listen & believe, cause science, and we must try and reverse all the damage that's been done by not listening to science.

She also talked about how the lift used to fight for free speech and how the lift must reclaim that argument from the right. She also talked about how she had signed Elisa defending free speech. And then came the question about JK Rowling.

The woman who asked the question - I thought wow this is great, and then she completely bowed down and refused to question Margaret Atwood any further and said oh good point when Margaret Atwood gave the most rubbish argument about what a person who menstruates is. it was all very confused

It's like the whole sex and gender thing was being talked about the whole way through. it's like the gender critical wars that we are fighting was an analogy with the climate change battle. And then fucking Margaret Atwood comes on at the end and after telling us to listen to science & question and get evidence for three fucking hours she then comes on and says oh "the science of gender" blah blah and links to an article of no science at all. The only link to science was it was published in a journal that has science in the title.

Well it was better than I expected I suppose...

The 'interview' at the end was obviously just a cosy chat rather than a challenging Today-style interview. As guest editor, Margaret Atwood presumably had some editorial control over what went out on air.

The interviewer pointing out the idiocy of Atwood's position that saying "only women menstruate" is the same as saying "if you don't menstruate you're not a woman" was obviously not something that was going to be broadcast on this occasion.

The interviewer - if that had been me ‘aye is that right then, but you did - and whoever said because you don’t now that means you aren’t a woman? Are you daft or just having a laugh?’