NHS Greater Glasgow and Clyde withdraws trans advice for female-only wards - Times Scotland

[Igneococcus]

Good news on this chilly morning:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/6cf9add4-4891-11eb-9dbc-44d114c9d92d?shareToken=6281a2d28333a5b52bf5586ef503527d

The obvious answer as always is the addition of third spaces.

Or the use of single rooms (most hospitals have a few) for individuals who should not, for reasons of criminal offences against women for example, be placed in women-only wards. Unless there were an influx of such patients all at the same time so that there was no available "private" room, this would be bad luck on the individuals who would otherwise be placed in those rooms, but better for all the other women in the hospital.

And I do not believe that the hospital would not be very well aware of the sex, as opposed to the gender, of their patients. Put someone male-bodied in a hospital gown and the penis can be observed easily enough....

As with requiring accessible loos to be provided, it would be no difficulty to establish in law that all hospitals, by x date, must be able to provide private room space or areas that can be turned to single space use, proportional to population. I'd gladly support campaigning for that.

It is the only way to meet needs in a way that maintains equal values for all, regardless of sex. And yes: cue wailing about being singled out. Unfortunately this is the only possible compromise. Additional spaces, yes, absolutely. Removal of safe, private, dignified accomodation from all women in order to give these things to a male?

Explain that, in a way that isn't sex based discrimination.

I have been in a single room in three hospitals, visited someone in a single room in two others, and observed that a friend was not given one because a TV personality was given it in another. So that's six hospitals in four towns that I know to have had the facility already available, which makes me strongly suspect that they all might. I'd like to hear nurses confirm or deny this, really.

Should we not all have private rooms anyway? I think it is time we did.

If the question is "why not?" the answer is nearly always "money".

I agree, though there are things to be said for seriously ill people to be easily observed at a casual glance; a ward with eight people in it is likely to be observed by a nurse more often, during the course of a night shift, than eight separate rooms, and that might make a considerable difference if there is a sudden medical emergency for one of the eight people in the beds.

Of course. I suppose I am mostly thinking of maternity. Because those periods were two of the worst times in my life when they should have been the best.

(But that’s a whole other story)

Yes money. I know. But money can be found for many things, just strangely never this kind of thing.

At the place I had my first child (the "never again" one that led to the other two being born at home) the delivery rooms at least had only one person in them at a time, along with the nursing staff and my partner.

I'd hope that it's pretty unlikely for a male-bodied person to be given a bed in a ward for new mothers, isn't it? Or has that all changed?

@AskingQuestionsAllTheTime the largest hospital in GreaterGlasgow and Clyde has almost entirely single rooms. It opened in 2015. Patients having long admissions complain about loneliness and there have been complaints that deteriorating patients were perhaps not noticed as quickly as they may have been in open wards. I don't know whether the wards are all mixed or single sex with private rooms though.
As an aside, it has been mentioned on here before that the attached maternity hospital does NOT have mainly single rooms as an example of sexism. In reality, it is the pre-existing maternity hospital which was not rebuilt as part of the new hospital project. It was renovated a few years before the new hospital and I assume there wasn't space to convert to single rooms.

In the QEUH, with the exception of the admission wards , all wards have single rooms with en suite facilities. The wards themselves are mixed and this can cause some problems, especially with patients with dementia. Visiting a relative who had numerous long term stays in a variety of wards, it was quite common to see a nurse seated doing paper work in a chair, obviously on guard duty, outside a particular room.

One would certainly hope no male patients in the maternity ward. But there were so many male visitors that I was really extremely distressed and frightened for both my own and my baby’s safety.

But anyway I digress.

TheShadowyFeminist - good post!

I wonder how many MtF people really do “pass”, to the extent that anyone meeting them for the first time post-transition would not have a clue?

It’s fine when people are open about it, so everyone knows the score, but it’s really uncomfortable when someone seems to think that if they don’t mention it then no one will know. It’s like being in the presence of a really bad con artist - not because they are trans but because they don’t acknowledge it.

I was on a job interview panel when one of the applicants was, on paper, female but honestly looked like Les Dawson’s “gossipy wife” character with manly voice to match. Possibly a pleasant enough person but way more anxious than justifiable even for a job interview.

The job was a new post with a well-established all-female team. The best candidate was male and was appointed, although the panel all had reservations about the impact on team dynamics and practical arrangements in the workplace. As we were not supposed to know about the “trans status” of the other candidate mentioned, ie. their male sex, this could not be discussed, eg. in terms of team dynamics, access to team toilet, changing and shower facilities.

Things would have been, and would be, so much better if the GRA 2004 did not promote the idea that being trans is at the same time something shameful and unmentionable and also something so discreet and undetectable that you wouldn’t know someone is trans unless you were told. It is farcical and unhelpful to everyone involved.

150 comments, and all I’ve read so far are supporting women.

I meant, 150 comments on the Times article:
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/6cf9add4-4891-11eb-9dbc-44d114c9d92d?shareToken=6281a2d28333a5b52bf5586ef503527d

I'd expect comments on Mumsnet FWR to support women!