Andrew Sullivan Diary in The Spectator 'I miss Lesbians'

[ScrapThatThen]

'I miss lesbians these days because so many are now becoming men. Many of the sudden hordes of youngsters seeking a testosteroned transition to maleness today would once have been teen lesbians — happy to expand the realm of femaleness to the most tomboyish of tomboys. But now, under the influence of queer theory and peer pressure, the tomboy is being told that whatever obstacles she may encounter, they can be resolved through male hormones.

That subversive, uniquely dykey, all-female space is narrowing. The social justice revolution has space for countless consonants, dozens of pronouns, but not so much leeway for women who love women and not men. It’s too binary for a deconstructed non-binary world. In the 1980s, there were around 200 lesbian bars in the US. Now there are 15. As my friend the lesbian writer Katie Herzog puts it: ‘Great. We’ll each get our own.'

I've never understood this. If you are a female lesbian and transition that makes you (in TRA logic) a straight male. What lesbian is going to want to have a relationship with a straight male?

My friend is a transman and he said he knows he's never going to have a partner as he is attracted to men but gay men are not attracted to vaginas.

It all seems so needlessly labelly and complicated. Why do they make such restrictive rules for themselves. It's not going to make him happy, in fact he's desperately unhappy and lonely. Having a double mastectomy has not made him content with his body. He's short, fat, shy and lonely. It's all very upsetting.

I hope that there is still lots of acceptance for Lesbians.

Also know a young and very vulnerable TM who was certain that testosterone and treatment would solve their crashing MH and family problems. They're struggling still more now that the gay men they so desperately want relationships with are kind but homosexual.

Someone here made a point a while back about how often young trans men read slash fanfiction (same-sex pairings, e.g. Kirk/Spock) and have a romanticised idea of gay men - I think this is such a huge part of it.

Re: lesbians - it continues to be worrying that it is 'easier' or 'more acceptable' to be a trans man than a lesbian. As a group lesbians have tended to be let down by the LGBTQ+ activism/community, which has historically prioritised gay men and now prioritises trans women.

all my lesbian friends are massively into trans rights over womens rights. they dont believe there are two biological sexes etcetc
it bemuses me.

@Helmetbymidnight

all my lesbian friends are massively into trans rights over womens rights. they dont believe there are two biological sexes etcetc it bemuses me.

That is truly bemusing. Would they sleep with a bepenised transwoman do you think?

There are good lesbians, who will insist that they don't refuse sex to male people on the grounds of them being male, at least in theory.

There are the bad lesbians who do evil things like reserve the right to be homosexual and say so .

Draw your own conclusions really. There have always been males who don't like women implying that they own their body and can state boundaries around it, even in theory, and there have always been women ready and willing to act in the best interests of males. Plus ca change.

Also worth asking yourself: why women who are happy to support male people by offering access to their body can't just do so and everyone enjoy themselves. Why does it having to come with trying to coerce other women into doing the same when those women are stating their unwillingness?

You'd think trying to coerce women into demonstrating their politics by putting their body to a use they don't want, don't enjoy and purely to serve a perceived female role in service to political righteousness (learn to cope, etc) would be.... not really that feminist or progressive really. And slightly odd in a kind of religious extremist way.

Andrew Sullivan seems to have made a journey from "be kind, evil T3RFs, TWAW" to this (and some other cautious, tentative steps) in the last year or so, hasn't he? Or am I mixing him up with someone else?

I can't bring myself to ask that one.

I do find it interesting and try to work out why - these are women of all ages.
I think its - mostly affinity with the 'underdog', dislike of what they see as a 'conservative/patriarchal position, thrown in with a bit of internalised misogyny sadly, and in the case of 2, tendency to woo in all things. They talk a lot about 'genital checks' so in some way they may feel GC is an attack on butch women.
They all support Eddie Izard and welcome him in the fight against the patriarchy.

I know!

The only lesbians I know personally who support TWAW are all middle aged & in long term relationships I.e. confident that they can say of course lesbians should include TW in their dating pool whilst knowing that they don’t have too

I find it appalling