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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Attacking the next first lady of the USA - Dr Jill Biden

94 replies

nickymanchester · 13/12/2020 20:02

A recent post on twitter highlighted that some random dude writing in the Wall Street Journal decided to attack the wife of Joe Biden (The WSJ is the US equivalent of The Financial Times):-

twitter.com/AndrewSolender/status/1337804907177512962

This is a real paragraph – written by Joseph Epstein – that was published in the Wall Street Journal:-

Is There a Doctor in the White House? Not if You Need an M.D.

Jill Biden should think about dropping the honorific, which feels fraudulent, even comic.

Madame First Lady - Mrs. Biden - Jill - kiddo: a bit of advice on what may seem like a small but I think is a not unimportant matter. Any chance you might drop the "Dr." before your name? "Dr. Jill Biden" sounds and feels fraudulent, not to say a touch comic. Your degree is, I believe, an Ed.D., a doctor of education, earned at the University of Delaware through a dissertation with the unpromising title "Student Retention at the Community College Level: Meeting Students' Needs." A wise man once said that no one should call himslef "Dr." unless he had delivered a child. Think about it, Dr. Jill, and forthwith drop the doc.

I was just felt literally gobsmacked by that sort of condescension in a newspaper with the reputation of the Wall Street Journal.

It turns out that I wasn't the only person that thought that either. There were many people who responded just how you would expect, for example:-

twitter.com/jrpsaki/status/1337929492363407370

You are not alone if today is the first day you googled “Joseph Epstein” because you were curious who popped out of a 1950’s time warp to write the below for the WSJ

twitter.com/Chasten/status/1337776851423551489

The author could’ve used fewer words to just say “ya know in my day we didn’t have to respect women.”

twitter.com/DouglasEmhoff/status/1337848812610568193

Dr. Biden earned her degrees through hard work and pure grit. She is an inspiration to me, to her students, and to Americans across this country. This story would never have been written about a man.

But I think the best response came from the twitter account of Merriam-Webster (they are the US equivalent of the OED - the Oxford English Dictionary). Without making any reference to the Wall Street Journal article at all they simply put this out a few hours later:-

twitter.com/MerriamWebster/status/1337841415116763138

The word 'doctor' comes from the Latin word for "teacher."

The History of 'Doctor' - Just who qualifies as a doctor anyway?

Not surprisingly, people picked up on this quite quickly, for example:-

When Merriam Webster trolls WSJ....

When the dictionary has the shadiest subtweets on the web. Grin

The pure devastation you must feel when the dictionary itself steps up to destroy your credibility..

While this may appear just a storm in a teacup, it is really quite staggering that attitudes like this can still be printed in opinion pieces in serious newspapers.

Attacking the next first lady of the USA - Dr Jill Biden
OP posts:
Posturesorposes · 13/12/2020 20:03

Twitter has exploded about it - my entire academic circle across the world. Well done us all. We’ve all got our PhDs on our display names now and why not?!

ArabellaScott · 13/12/2020 20:10

no one should call himslef "Dr."

Bit of a giveaway there.

Misogynist arse, clearly.

HecatesCatsInXmasHats · 13/12/2020 20:14

I've been following this too, the responses have been brilliant. Why did the WSJ lower itself to give this sexist man with a massive chip on his shoulder a voice? Pondering whether it's just good old entrenched American sexism. There have been articles too about why Kamala Harris's husband should be expected to give up his job - the like if which would never have been written about the wives of previous male VPs.

I keep thinking of a phrase that was used about Hilary Clinton following her defeat to Trump, I forget who by, that she was never qualified enough for office until she was over-qualified. As a woman she just couldn't win.

ICJump · 13/12/2020 20:40

“A wise man once said that no one should call himslef "Dr." unless he had delivered a child. “

Well Dr Biden has delivered a baby. Her own. What afucking numoty that fool is.

Ill be calling myself Dr from now

andyoldlabour · 13/12/2020 20:43

WSJ in the sewer, who could have predicted that?
I do not know who these former news outlets are recruiting nowadays.

bluebluezoo · 13/12/2020 20:45

There was a thread on here not so long ago with many, many posters saying those with PhD's should not use their title. apparently it confuses Joe public who can only conceive of medical dr's, is dangerous on planes and it's just having ideas above your station, pretending you're a medic.

bluebluezoo · 13/12/2020 20:48

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4076810-To-sign-up-at-the-surgery-as-Dr

Here. Many women on MN have the same opinion as WSJ, apparently.

HecatesCatsInXmasHats · 13/12/2020 20:50

Not this one

RJnomore1 · 13/12/2020 20:54

ThT thread also taught me that the title Dr when used for a medical doctor is an honorific and not a title, it’s PhD/EdD who are actually entitled to use it.

Thelnebriati · 13/12/2020 20:54

385 people thought OP was being unreasonable, doesn't say how many of them were women though.

Attacking the next first lady of the USA - Dr Jill Biden
Miriel · 13/12/2020 21:02

I lost any interest in what he had to say when he referred to a 69-year-old woman as 'kiddo'. Immediate sign of sexist condescension. If it's supposed to be a joke, it's not funny.

VictoriaLucas102 · 13/12/2020 21:36

@bluebluezoo

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4076810-To-sign-up-at-the-surgery-as-Dr

Here. Many women on MN have the same opinion as WSJ, apparently.

That’s a thread that started off all positive, you go girl, that somehow turned into a shit show by page 40 (I didn’t read the in-between bits ... ain’t nobody got time got that).

I read the article this morning and it was the most nauseating piece of misogyny I’ve seen in a long time. And in this current climate that is saying something.

donquixotedelamancha · 13/12/2020 23:16

Noted homophobe Joseph Epstein is also a misogynist.

Well, I'm shocked, shocked I tell you.

Mominatrix · 13/12/2020 23:41

ThT thread also taught me that the title Dr when used for a medical doctor is an honorific and not a title, it’s PhD/EdD who are actually entitled to use it.

Not if you got your degree in the US where medical degrees are postgraduate and you receive a doctorate of medicine.

ErrolTheDragon · 13/12/2020 23:54

Madame First Lady - Mrs. Biden - Jill - kiddo: a bit of advice on what may seem like a small but I think is a not unimportant matter. Any chance you might drop the "Dr." before your name?

I think he's just ensured the answer to that is 'not a chance, kiddo'.

I noticed something mildly funny when I googled who this charmless individual was - it's not in the wiki page itself now...

Attacking the next first lady of the USA - Dr Jill Biden
teezletangler · 14/12/2020 01:30

He sounds like he has a chip on his shoulder because he's in academia and doesn't have a doctorate.

I think Jill Biden is quite an impressive woman. I had no idea until very recently that she continued her community college teaching career as Second Lady, and plans to continue to some extent as First Lady. The first First Lady to ever hold a separate job. It seems that she truly loves her her career.

GlowingOrb · 14/12/2020 01:34

It’s also offensive to the many school teachers who earn their phds and rightfully are called Dr. by their students.

UsedUpUsername · 14/12/2020 01:40

A lot of writer’s guidelines specify using Dr only if the person has a medical degree and is an actual doctor.

I tend to agree with this POV in all honesty. Should I call someone with a doctorate in queer studies Dr so-and-so? Lots of worthless PhDs out there...

pallisers · 14/12/2020 01:44

I tend to agree with this POV in all honesty. Should I call someone with a doctorate in queer studies Dr so-and-so? Lots of worthless PhDs out there...

fab that Mr (not Dr - by any determination) Epstein is posting on MN.

UsedUpUsername · 14/12/2020 01:58

@pallisers

I tend to agree with this POV in all honesty. Should I call someone with a doctorate in queer studies Dr so-and-so? Lots of worthless PhDs out there...

fab that Mr (not Dr - by any determination) Epstein is posting on MN.

Just a weary writer who has to explain to (mostly male sources btw) why I’m not using Dr for their name.

But sure, go ahead and smear me for having a different opinion.

UsedUpUsername · 14/12/2020 02:05

This guy, for one:

<a class="break-all" href="https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/04/16/sebastian-gorka-likes-to-be-called-dr-gorka-he-gets-his-way-only-in-conservative-media/#click=t.co/RvyKt30CKU" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/04/16/sebastian-gorka-likes-to-be-called-dr-gorka-he-gets-his-way-only-in-conservative-media/#click=t.co/RvyKt30CKU

Defaultname · 14/12/2020 02:54

Apart from absolutely flim-flam doctorates...I believe one is being worked towards by a person who's been much discussed on MN over the last year or two?-the only dodgy ones seemed to be those at Cambridge, which I thought were awarded on application after a set number of years.
It seems that that's not actually the case. www.cambridgestudents.cam.ac.uk/your-course/examinations/graduate-exam-information/higher-degrees/higher-doctorates

I wonder what proportion of PhDs etc. generally use the appelation?

Delphinium20 · 14/12/2020 03:14

“A wise man once said that no one should call himself "Dr." unless he had delivered a child."

Because it's the MEN who deliver the babies...right...of all the things medical doctors do, he had to pick the one thing that takes away from women's role of giving birth.

I hope Dr. Biden never stops using that title.

NotBadConsidering · 14/12/2020 05:10

I don’t agree with his article or his views. I think it’s fine to express such disagreement in response. Some of the reaction has been weird though. He hasn’t taught at Northwestern University since 2003 yet they felt the need to release two public statements condemning him - not just the article, but him - and scrubbing his name from their alumni records? This is a man they’ve had nothing to do with for 17 years and he publishes one controversial article and now they’re going to pretend he never went there.

What’s the point of that? It’s not possible for reaction to be completely rational anymore. It’s always a mixture of the rational - well-articulated counter arguments that destroy his views - with the overblown, that just virtue signal. Why don’t Northwestern, a university for Pete’s sake, publish a response highlighting the importance of doctorates?

So sick of playing fiddle to the Twitter outrage, even when it’s in favour of a view I also share.

BrandyandDeath · 14/12/2020 05:22

Eh. I would feel foolish using the honorofic in non-academic contexts.