CBBC - When Mum Becomes Dad

[ScoldsBridle]

My Life, Series 11: When Mum Becomes Dad: www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m000pz3c via @bbciplayer

I’ve just watched it. First thoughts are what a lovely, bright child the daughter is. Her little brother is sweet too but is very quiet and my heart was breaking when he was talking about a story in school about a child losing their Mum. The mother that is now Dad Jack, was doing all the standard legwork stereotypically done by a ‘Mum’ - ferrying the kids about, organising play dates and birthday parties, helping with piano lessons. The Dad that fathered them featured only when he came to ‘help support’ at his own daughter’s birthday party.

Dad ‘Jack’ (formerly the person the kids knew as their mother) was dressed how I dress but had a deeper voice and facial hair so was obviously taking Testosterone. They were not interviewed as the whole programme was ‘led’ by Tilly (except we know how TV programmes are made and we know it will have been guided and ultimately steered by Dad Jack and the programme ‘consultants’).

It was a classic scripted/constructed ‘documentary’ masquerading as a fly-on-the-wall. Therefore there was lots of ‘oh let’s go and talk to this other person with a transgender dad that I’ve never met before’, or ‘oh look at these photos of my Dad when he was a child that I’ve never seen before’, ‘oh let’s get the boy with the transgender Dad who I just met in Brighton come and help me talk to my little brother’s class of 9 year olds about having a Transgender Dad’.

I felt uncomfortable at the scene where the first child they met who had a Transgender Dad was talking about having to have counselling to deal with it all - it was actually referred to as bereavement counselling. I also felt sorry for the little brother being probed about the upsetting incident in school where someone likened his situation to his Mum having ‘gone away’.I thought it was intrusive and I’m not sure the poor lad was entirely happy being jollied along in the making of this ‘documentary’ by his big sister and Dad Jack.

I couldn’t help but wonder at the ultimate selfishness of Dad Jack and the other Transgender Dads. Dad Jack used some abstract musical metaphor about how living as a woman felt like playing a wrong note on the piano. And there was this infuriatingly unexplained concept of ‘living as a man’ and ‘living as a woman’ What does it mean??!

I felt sorry for the children having to accept this concept that they no longer had a mother. It seems an awful lot to ask of children and, personally, I thought that some of them looked like they were carrying a weight. The class of seemingly well-coached 9 year olds, looked slightly baffled but that might just have been because there was a film crew in their classroom! And the children reinforced the mantra of ‘being kind’ and accepting everything to make other people happy.

I hope I’m allowed to discuss this programme on here. It’s on CBBC so I feel it valid for me to critique it honestly as both a parent and an interested viewer. I see that Freddy McConnell (the Transgender man who is campaigning to be called the father on their child’s birth certificate) was a consultant on the programme and Fox Fisher also helped with the ‘casting’.

Be interested to know what others think. It’s been on Iplayer since 30 November so very recent.

Quite. This isn't showing off your gerbil on My Pet And Me. FFS.

And it isn't like children acting a part, where they (and their peers) can understand that the performer is different to the role.

This is real children's lives, effectively being commodified (as I imagine the BBC has retained sale and distribution rights worldwide).

I think it's time Ofcom started paying attention to the long term damage media exposure could cause minors. It just doesn't sit well with me at all.

I watched it with my DD (year 6)

We had an interesting discussion afterwards. Coming from my perspective I felt that my children’s needs for a mother outweigh any personal desire/need I might have to change myself, but my daughter said that she wouldn’t want her mum to be unhappy and that perhaps being himself made Dad Jack a better parent. She said they haven’t really talked about this at school, but she has a friend who’s parents recently separated so the concept of happier parents being better parents is fairly current and “not staying together for the kids”/living a lie.

I do agree that some of the conversations seemed a little scripted/contrived and that the son/father seemed a little awkward with it all, maybe it was having the cameras in the house. Perhaps the kids in the documentary had adapted better because Jack had transitioned slowly and started when the kids were quite young, also that apart from the physical/voice changes, Jack was effectively fulfilling the mother role. I wonder if the other child had experienced it more abruptly hence the sense of bereavement.

I agree that the bbc should not be pushing a trans kids agenda on children’s programming, but if we agree that it is a decision to be made responsibly as an adult, then I do feel that Jack is a good role model for that. Our children will meet trans people in life, may decide to transition themselves or have friends who’s parents are trans. I actually think the programme handled this in a sensitive way and may be helpful as a tool for reassuring other kids who may go on to experience this.

There was a cbbc programme a while ago about a child who’s father was in prison. Despite any personal feelings about the decision making of an adult that leads them to a custodial sentence, it is still helpful for children to understand each other’s lives and reduce stigma/bullying for kids in these situations.

How many of these programmes are there!? One surely is enough to see the propaganda in full swing? On the other hand I guess for some parents they might need a hook to talk to their children and reassure them they are not going to lose their mum. A trip down reality lane perhaps?

i sort of think, if your mum changes their gender presentation, they are still your mum?

‘My mum grew a beard’ is not as catchy though.

I don't understand the concept of 'living as a woman' or 'living as a man', or what this parent is doing that is fundamentally different to what they were doing before, or how any of the practical reality of pregnancy and child birth is now no longer worthy of a name.

If this isn't a mental health issue its difficult to understand this in any way that isn't just deeply sexist.

There was a cbbc programme a while ago about a child who’s father was in prison. Despite any personal feelings about the decision making of an adult that leads them to a custodial sentence, it is still helpful for children to understand each other’s lives and reduce stigma/bullying for kids in these situations.

I agree that the BBC has the potential to play a positive role in broadening children's understanding of other people's lives with the goal of reducing the stigma associated with being different. But I don't think a programme about having a parent in prison is comparable.

Having a parent in prison is a straightforward statement of fact, the consequences of which the child will have to deal with somehow. I still think there are ethical questions around a child's ability to consent to sharing intimate details about their life, especially now content is so persistent, but that is a separate issue.

No one is gaslighting a child into having to believe something that doesn't make sense to them in order to validate someone else's choices on national TV.

As someone said before, if a woman can have a penis why can’t a (trans)man be called mum? Especially if mum transitioned when the child was a bit older and had been calling them mum.
I am concerned about how the change would affect children whose parents transition, bearing in mind how parents separating affects children. Similarly how a child whose “dad” gave birth to them when they find out that it’s different to the general scheme of things, would it be similar to finding out you’re adopted?
There was another thread that had a link to an Israeli transman who has birthed three children and I did note that it was this “dad” who was the SAHP and not the children’s other dad.

No one is gaslighting a child into having to believe something that doesn't make sense to them in order to validate someone else's choices on national TV.

Agree - it would be similar if the programme took a stance on whether the parent should be in prison or suggested that the parent wasn't in prison.

"My mum is trans and identifies as male" = fact
"My mum is now my dad" = ideology

I'm just watching now.

I am in awe of the children. They are incredibly well spoken and polite and switched on.

What a lovely young man Nat is too.. considering they were all just kinda thrown together,

I get an overwhelming feeling of selfishness it has to be said.

I thought the part where Tilly pondered about what she was going to do by way of a ‘female role model’, and Dad Jack said ‘hey if you want one of them how would you feel about your Aunty being it?’ was so cringing and staged. Again, as if this was the first time they’d had that revelatory thought EVER and the cameras ‘happened’ to be there?! And then they duly showed Tilly with her nice feminine role model of an Aunty who proceeded to show Tilly pretty jewellery that Dad Jack had made when they were younger ie. nice ‘feminine girly things‘

Dad Jack seemed a great parent but yes, I can’t get with the idea of prioritising myself to such an extent and expecting my own children to affirm my identity. Could they not just have called themselves Jack and dressed and behaved exactly the same without having to make their children completely reframe their understanding of biology? Would Dad Jack insist that they had given birth to them as a man for instance? I’d be interested to know more about them (but not in the context of a CBBC programme)

I saw something on Instagram about a Dad who is transitioning into a ‘Mummy’ and there was also this ‘oh my kids are so accepting they just want me to be happy’. I think that translates into a perfectly understandable desire for peace in the house and not the presence of a depressed, angry, unhappy person - anything to avoid that scenario and make the grown-ups smile. It’s so different from an adult giving their considered ‘acceptance’ to a situation.

I do hear what a PP is saying about how this programme might help some kids in the same situation and lead to greater acceptance. But it goes beyond saying ‘live and let live’ - it’s actually advocating for a highly self-centred approach to parenting. I know the old adage from my breastfeeding struggles ‘happy Mum, happy Baby’ - this goes much further.

It’s hard to put into words. It’s why the ‘be kind’ mantra gets trotted out because when your brain is about to explode trying to articulate the discomfort you have about this type of scenario, a nice ‘thought-terminating cliche’ is just what the doctor ordered. Be kind or ignore but don’t, whatever you do, question.

And then they duly showed Tilly with her nice feminine role model of an Aunty who proceeded to show Tilly pretty jewellery that Dad Jack had made when they were younger ie. nice ‘feminine girly things‘

Difficult to understand how this isn't telling children that there is a right and wrong way to be a female role model.

@merrymouse

And then they duly showed Tilly with her nice feminine role model of an Aunty who proceeded to show Tilly pretty jewellery that Dad Jack had made when they were younger ie. nice ‘feminine girly things‘

Difficult to understand how this isn't telling children that there is a right and wrong way to be a female role model.

Indeed. What Aunty is actually providing is a feminine role model. Not the same thing at all, and I see absolutely no reason why any girl needs one of those.

I've been meaning to watch so I can complain. I knew it was going to be horrific gaslighting to children watching so have been avoiding it.

I knew McConnell was involved but didn't know Fisher was too. Not surprising.

Will watch (maybe with a wine to help me through) and will also complain.

CBBC is dangerous these days. I'm sticking to DVDs of Winnie the Pooh.

It feels like this is placing a child into a parenting role and making them responsible for the parent's mental wellbeing.

These children absolutely show a sense of responsibility for their parent’s well-being. A lot of the narratives relating to transition seem to rest in thinking that children are wise beyond their years and capable of processing very adult concerns. It kind of feeds in to the ‘capable of consent’ argument. Look where that has taken us. Hypothetically speaking, would a child feel they genuinely had the option to tell their transgender Dad that she would be happier calling them Mum if that made them feel more secure and comfortable? Or would the parent’s comfort and happiness take precedent. Would the child be castigated as selfish and hurtful and made to feel guilty if they voiced that feeling?

... would a child feel they genuinely had the option to tell their transgender Dad that she would be happier calling them Mum if that made them feel more secure and comfortable?

No, is the short answer. Even very young children are incredibly tuned in to their parents emotional needs. I think it is one of the first duties of a parent to shield their child from the burden of that knowledge. Just look at the Stately Homes thread to see how trying to please a parent plays out years down the line.

I also worry about how this sort of scenario would play out in a family with a child with autism, who might find it particularly difficult to process the new "reality". What happens when a child consistently misgenders their own parent?

These children absolutely show a sense of responsibility for their parent’s well-being. A lot of the narratives relating to transition seem to rest in thinking that children are wise beyond their years and capable of processing very adult concerns

Kind of made them responsible fir not being bullied too by talking to the school. Tilly was there for mal ,Nat was there for tilly but who was there for nat.

A schools anti bullying policy should cover everything surely? You don't have to understand something to not be a dick, and you don't have to be gaslit out of what you see and to be responsible for your behaviour.

@sananbaz

My ten year old daughter watched this the other day. I'm mad at the BBC tbh. My daughter does not conform to gender stereotypes and has been mistaken for a boy most of her life. This doesn't bother her and she's happy as she is. When she was seven, she watched two CBBC programs (one with a girl transitioning to a boy, and one of a non conforming girl happy as she was). She got confused when a holiday club worker told her she could change into a boy, and she went through a period of saying she was born in the wrong body. After many talks about her being perfect just the way she is, born the way she was meant to be, I could see a massive weight lifted from her shoulders and she has continued to happily be a girl with short hair and practical clothes. I've had to deflect school from giving us advice from mermaids and stonewall, and I had to put in writing that no one was to talk about being in the wrong body or transitioning to her - they seem to be doing this. She has dealt with a teacher asking her what her preferred pronouns were in front of the rest of the class, (he was surprised she said she/her). She is genuinely happy with herself, her life and her friends. I wouldn't be surprised if she was gay, and if she's happy, we are happy, so no concerns there. However, watching this latest CBBC offering has once again made her think changing herself would make life easier for society to accept her. I am resolute that societies idea of gender stereotyping should change, not my beautiful daughter. I don't want her medicated, sterilised or mutilated to allow society to accept that she is a girl that likes short hair and practical clothes. I don't think that's too much to ask.

Could not agree with this more and had a similar experience when dd was at primary.

These children absolutely show a sense of responsibility for their parent’s well-being. A lot of the narratives relating to transition seem to rest in thinking that children are wise beyond their years and capable of processing very adult concerns

This. And it's permeated into medical services too. A friend of mine who is a child psychologist has been told (can't remember whether by the Trust she works for or by the professional body) that if a child with transgender parents presents with mental health difficulties, she can't explore the impact/influence of parental transition on the child. Because acknowledging that a child may struggle with Mum becoming Dad (or vice versa) is transphobic . Parental well being and wishes prioritised above the child's mental health.

I'm so sorry sananbaz that is absolutely shocking. It is unconscionable for teachers - or any other adult for that matter - to push a child into a trans identity.

I wonder how many gender non-conforming children have been made to feel they must transition because of well-meant but misguided input like this?

I actually know one of the people who made the doc. Haven't seen her for years but she's a lesbian, with partner, kids etc. I don't understand how she doesn't see how homophobic the trans agenda is.

Interesting that the biological dad is not required to hang about, supporting his now husband and enjoying his newly homosexual identity. Bit of a contrast with the previous CBBC offering where dad became super-mum, and biological mum looked like she was in a hostage video.

I don’t understand - people tell us that a person with a male body can be a woman, so why can’t a person who refers to themself as male be a mum? Less confusing for the kids (where’s your mum? I haven’t got one...)