Ex-Rugby Players to sue for brain damage

[KeepQuietAndCarryOn]

According to the BBC - Rugby World Cup winner Steve Thompson and seven other formers players claim the sport has left them with permanent brain damage and they're in the process of starting a claim for negligence.

Should make an interesting court case especially as there are parallels for negligently putting women at risk by sporting bodies that allow access by a person's chosen gender rather than by sex.

I really feel for players who have suffered long term damage from their sporting days, however really, suing? Surely it doesn't take much of a brain - even a damaged one - to know that a game with such aggressive contact isn't going to be 100% safe?

A lad I went to school with suffered a brain haemorrhage due to a bad tackle when he was playing rugby at the age of 15. We were prepared (by a priest!) for him to die. He didn't, and he still plays professionally. So he suffered a horrific injury and still chooses to play.

Players know the risks, and to suggest that they don't is ridiculous.

Actually I think many of the risks are only now becoming clear. Increased dementia in footballers for example

Actually I think many of the risks are only now becoming clear. Increased dementia in footballers for example

Yes, it's become increasingly clear over the past 5 years or so that repeatedly heading the ball probably causes brain damage in the long term. Whereas you might be aware of the risk of experiencing an injury, you probably wouldn't be aware of the long-term risk of dementia. Though I'm not sure the governing body would have been aware of that either.

I agree the long term hidden risks are only becoming talked about over the past 5 years or more.

And when it comes to what they can do, there is parallels to be drawn with American football. In the effort to win, players became bigger and bigger and more damage has been done over past decades than earlier. As more money is available for professional wages.

So much can be done with monitoring scrum weights, tackling techniques etc. like with Football and headers.

However, what surprises me is that knowing this and knowing the physical weaknesses in female brains, the clubs still allow males despite the evidence to WR. Astonishing ignorance of female player safety.

There was an article on WH last week (Monday?) about how brains of women are more prone to damage when hit, in sports such as football or rugby, than male players.

One theory besides the physiology is that the menstrual cycle leaves the brain more prone to injury at certain times of the cycle.

Surely this has implications?

@midgebabe

Actually I think many of the risks are only now becoming clear. Increased dementia in footballers for example

Yes exactly that. I’ve followed rugby for years & it’s only really been in the last few years that the sport has really started to think about the impact of constant head contact on the front rows & concussions on players

There’s no way players in their 40s would have been told ‘this will
Increase your risk of early onset dementia’ when they started playing

There was an article on WH last week (Monday?) about how brains of women are more prone to damage when hit, in sports such as football or rugby, than male players.

I read something similar a while back too, they were investigating why female rugby players took longer to recover from head injuries or something along those lines.

Do you have a link Neurotrash please? That sounds interesting. It obviously builds on the Swansea (?) uni findings which were female rugby related.

yes, i heard something about women's brains being even more at risk than men's. i think it was on women's hour. the scientist aid they were still investigating why, but probably something to do with hormones, and fluctuations due to menstrual cycle.
i remember hearing about this issue generally re sport nearly 20 years ago. and i think heading the ball is banned for children playing soccer in america.
we're back to whether a child can give informed consent to something that they may regret/ may harm them later.
now where have i heard something like that recently...

It's in this one. I did a grumpy thread about it. Didn't listen to whole thing, but did to the football but which was really good.

www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000pw70

Monday 30th Nov.

yes, i heard something about women's brains being even more at risk than men's. i think it was on women's hour. the scientist aid they were still investigating why, but probably something to do with hormones, and fluctuations due to menstrual cycle.

This study suggests more delicate brain fibres. It could all be along same lines or contributory.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-51434749

Recent research in the neurology field has reported that axons [nerve fibres] in women's brains are a lot thinner and they have fewer microtubules [hollow tubes that give shape to cells]

Yes they mentioned a few things; the cycle was also in relation to women's dementia in general iirc. Which also has implications for women's health. Eg hrt?

Recent research in the neurology field has reported that axons [nerve fibres] in women's brains are a lot thinner and they have fewer microtubules [hollow tubes that give shape to cells]

Puts a v different spin on men claiming they have women's brains

The link between acquired brain injury, Parkinson's, MND, dementia etc and several sports professional or otherwise have been known for a long time.
Rugby, football, horse racing, riding and eventing etc. Women as much at risk as men.

Puts a v different spin on men claiming they have women's brains.

Blows that one right out of the water.

I suspect most sports/activities involving significant physical activity causes damage. A friend who was a competitive rower puts her arthritis down to the rowing and training damaging her joints.

@StopGo

The link between acquired brain injury, Parkinson's, MND, dementia etc and several sports professional or otherwise have been known for a long time. Rugby, football, horse racing, riding and eventing etc. Women as much at risk as men.

The research seems to be saying women are at risk of greater damage than men for a number of physiological and biological reasons.

@yourhairiswinterfire

There was an article on WH last week (Monday?) about how brains of women are more prone to damage when hit, in sports such as football or rugby, than male players.

I read something similar a while back too, they were investigating why female rugby players took longer to recover from head injuries or something along those lines.

Oh don't say that! You'll only give credence to the Lady Brain eejits, in both directions of science twisting!

There's probably a lot more coming out of sports injury research over the next year or so... should be quite interesting to see how some people decide to twist that too!

Players know the risks, and to suggest that they don't is ridiculous.

But the point is that they did not know that rugby would mean they had dementia by the age of 41. Dementia is a life limiting diagnosis (in the sense that it will kill you prematurely).

They expected to have physical consequences and knew of immediate risks, but did anybody expect dementia and reduced life expectancy years later?

Anyway, regardless of when it was understood that training practices etc are causing dementia, if no mitigation has been implemented then it is right that action is taken to compel mitigation to be taken.

@StopGo

The link between acquired brain injury, Parkinson's, MND, dementia etc and several sports professional or otherwise have been known for a long time. Rugby, football, horse racing, riding and eventing etc. Women as much at risk as men.

I actually wasn't aware that MND was linked to sports ( I've now looked it up). But then I'm not involved in any of those sports so maybe that's why.

I suppose there's a distinction between what's known amongst researchers and medics, and what is common knowledge in a population. Are people participating in sports like these always going to be aware of long term risks? If rugby or football or riding is your hobby (even at an intensive level), is research about dementia and MND going to be on your radar without major publicity like this case?

I was reading something recently about VOSA targeting horse trailers for weight spot checks because apparently lots of people aren't very clued up and overload trailers. Which surprised me as I naively assumed anyone driving a lorry/trailer wouldn't do so without the right knowledge/skills.

So I can easily imagine that lots of riders are aware of immediate injury/death risks but not aware of any link to things like MND in the long term.

I've only ever heard people involved in those kinds of sports talking about short term risks. I realise that's anecdotal though.

Curious, that is a risk yes, that it's used against women. But imo to research and evidencing the differences creates benefits that far outweigh the negatives for women's health. Offering protective medical measures, defining and maintaining women's sports as female only.

There's evidence that puberty blockers affect the female brain differently to the male for eg. Many drugs haven't been tested properly in women and so may create different effects. Women experience extreme brain fog sometimes during menopause; hrt can help it hugely.

It's worth listening to the WH programme as a female footballer describes her experiences with this and had to retire.

Neurotrash I'd hope that would be the case, but having seen the claims of victory in the Keira Bell case I have my doubts that anything can escape the mangling of those who can cheefully divorce thinking and biology!

Gosh. I play football for a ladies team and I've taken my fair share of headers and I was concussed once after I caught the ball all wrong on my head. I've stopped heading now because of this but my peers are still heading away.