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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Debbie Hayton - Spectator - Keira Bell

7 replies

MidClegs · 03/12/2020 09:40

I often baulk eye roll when Hayton is published on matters which concern women and children, and Hayton is published SO often, but this is a good piece and Hayton has some very valid points to make. Nothing new here really, but to a new-comer it sets the story out matter-of-factly.

www.spectator.co.uk/article/keira-bell-s-victory-is-an-important-one-for-trans-teenagers

"But I do wonder if we are now reversing out of the enlightenment. It’s not traditional religious dogma that is captivating society – not in the West at least – but postmodern ideologies that are every bit as strong. Ideas such as gender identity are presented as accepted truth with little in the way of evidence to support them. Indeed, gender identity cannot even be defined without circular reasoning, and reference to sexist stereotypes. Dissenters are persecuted by the true faithful with an evangelical zeal that bears an uncanny resemblance to religious persecutions of the past, as JK Rowling and Rosie Duffield found out earlier this year. The Trans Inquisition is no joke; it is all too real."

Debbie talks about the curse of the internet; where teens are being told about the available treatment (blockers, hormones, surgeries) to alleviate their discomfort - and Debbie said that if they had been of that same age had this been available would have pursued it themselves.

"If I – as a middle-aged teacher, with a PhD in atomic physics even – could fall for this, then children setting out in the world have little hope of resisting it. For them, becoming transgender is not only a promise of salvation from their troubles but, crucially, a cause of further troubles. Why? Because humans cannot change sex. Human beings – like all other mammals – are sexually dimorphic. We are either male or female, and that is determined by our biology. It is certainly not 'assigned at birth' by some mysterious process, perhaps involving one of JK Rowling’s sorting hats. We may be unhappy with our bodies but changing sex is not the answer because changing sex is not possible."

OP posts:
Siameasy · 03/12/2020 09:55

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Siameasy · 03/12/2020 10:22

Exhale and try again.
Hayton is correct. This is a subjective personal belief system; gender identity is personal to the holder. I would say faith based. Which is absolutely fine, we all have our beliefs but what is not fine is that beliefs are taught to children as fact.
If I send my child to a secular school I do not expect them to be taught that one particular religion is fact
“Some people believe...”

vivariumvivariumsvivaria · 03/12/2020 11:36

I am wary of Debbie Hayton, after reading what some of the widows threads contain then I'm wary of anyone who transitions and remains married, really. However, it is useful to have articles like that written by a trans person - I share them on social media and manage to not get flung on a pyre, whereas if I shared anything Bindel wrote then I'd be thumb tied and dunked as fast as you like.

MidClegs · 03/12/2020 12:08

I share them on social media and manage to not get flung on a pyre

ExACTly. Debbie's articles are useful for that reason.

OP posts:
testing987654321 · 03/12/2020 13:28

if I shared anything Bindel wrote then I'd be thumb tied and dunked as fast as you like.

That's so infuriating. I obviously don't know your situation but, as the Keira case show, it's girls who are the collateral damage mostly from an ideology pushed by Hayton.

Please find the courage to share either your own thoughts of the malpractice done by GIDS or an article written by someone who stood up to this.

vivariumvivariumsvivaria · 03/12/2020 14:32

Well, testing, I think I'm doing pretty well with my social media at challenging their thinking.

I've got plenty courage - but nothing will change if I get labelled a terf because they won't then listen. I could have one glorious blast of a post, or, I could be effective.

I have a lot of respect for Julie Bindel and everyone else who writes so eloquently - but, my social circle is full of guardian reading HCPs who are earnest about inclusion, they respond to beginner level stuff. and, having a transwoman asking pertinent questions is really useful.

testing987654321 · 03/12/2020 18:11

Fair enough. I am glad you are trying to get people to question things. I've never been known for my tact so am probably less persuasive.

I just don't think DH has much to say that is useful.

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