Jeremy Vine show is discussing Keira Bell's case today

[Destinysdaughter]

Will be on at around 1 on R2. Should be interesting...

[ItsAllGoingToBeFine]

Pretty sure there have been U16s on cross sex hormones?

(Yes I got sucked in and am listening)

[ListeningQuietly]

TBH if the COVID vaccine allows lots of organisations to to quietly update their sex / gender / safeguarding / childcare guidance
in time for the start of the new term / year
and blame in on Brexit / COVID / rainbow unicorns
I do not care

the ruling is excellent and locks safeguarding into healthcare
where it should always have been

[Destinysdaughter]

My favourite comment was the bloke saying it's crazy to try and cure a medical illness by giving someone a physical illness!

[MichelleofzeResistance]

Susie Green needs to read the judgement. She is making statements that the judgement quite clearly refutes as not correct.

Which leaves you wondering: is she speaking about a judgement she hasn't actually read? It can't be that she has evidence that the judgement is wrong because Mermaids put forward the evidence they had and the judge's job was to look at all relevant evidence to do this establishing of facts.

[Deltoids1]

In between Newsnight last night and her appearance on JV shes had time to think about her media strategy and she’s chosen to double down on the precocious puberty angle.
Really?
At least she didn’t mention self harming and suicide.

[Destinysdaughter]

Gah! Meant mental illness.

[yourhairiswinterfire]

The last few days have made it obvious how much of this is just based on speculation.

Adult transpeople saying ''if I'd had the blockers, I may have been much better.''

SG and other parents: "If my child hadn't taken PB's, they might not be here today.

All focused on feelings and not evidence, and what might or might not have happened. Not good enough when you're dealing with patients, especially children.

[MichelleofzeResistance]

Precocious puberty: mentioned and rebutted in the judgement.

Susie, read the flipping judgement.

I honestly can't tell if she hasn't done so, hasn't understood it, or is just unable to accept objectively and legally established facts that don't fit with her feelings.

[JamieLeeCurtains]

I can quite believe that SG does not possess the intellectual capacity to read in full and meaningfully absorb the court ruling about the Tavistock.

And it shows.

[ItsAllGoingToBeFine]

It is interesting that the vast majority of people agree with the court judgement, those that don't seem to not have any great understand of the issue.

[PronounssheRa]

For what its worth, twitter opinion looks to have swung dramatically, in particular about susie green and mermaids.

I really can't see it continuing the way it is.

[Redshoeblueshoe]

And just to cheer you all up, Stonewall are backing away from Mermaids.
They have tweeted organisations that will support families, and Mermaids are not on the list.
Thanks to those who listened to this. I can't stand JV

[NancyDrawed]

Well that wasn't as bad as I thought it was going to be. Interesting that most of the callers that were allowed on agreed with the judgement.

And no soft voice for the TW caller (Leah?) either. What on earth has happened?

[JamieLeeCurtains]

Fear of legal liabilities has happened, I think.

[ByGrabtharsHammerWhatASavings]

The court judgement is very readable for the average lay person but its 38 pages long and I'm certain that the majority of the TRAs who claim to care so much simply won't be bothered enough to read a 38 page court judgement. There was some twat on the WPUK Facebook page yesterday wanging on about how the judgement meant the end for abortion rights, and it was just so fucking obvious they hadn't read it. So many of the questions/accusations I've seen on this so far would be answered clearly and quickly by just reading the judgement. But it's like the JKR essay all over again - "I haven't read it and I won't read it but I know what it says and it's bad and wrong". Lazy stupid selfish morons (that's the nicest version of what I want to call these people).

[OvaHere]

I listened to this in the car. SG toned it down a bit from the Newsnight appearance so no mention of suicide ideation, thank god.

Jeremy Vine is no Emily Maitlis that's for sure but at least he did pushback a bit when Green was insistent on contradicting the findings of the judgement.

[2Rebecca]

Transwoman who changed as an adult talking about it reducing the need for facial and voicebox surgery, erm, only if you are male, I don't know of any transmen who have had this, plus if most desist without blockers you are saving the ones who'd desist from medication and surgery. The facial feminisation etc is optional as well.
I thought it was funny that a GC male was accusing the TRAs of being obsessed with genitals for saying people needed to change their gender to live life as they wanted, saying "just do it in the body you have and reject the stereotypes".

[MichelleofzeResistance]

If I remember rightly, whistleblowers have mentioned concerns that the Tavistock was overly involved with and influenced by advocacy groups with a lot of passion but no medical expertise? Questions are going to have to be asked about how professional boundaries were maintained, and whether any issues here contributed to the mess the Tavistock finds themselves in.

[colouringindoors]

redshoeblueshoe any links? sounds to good to be true!

[fastwigglylines]

@JamieLeeCurtains

I can quite believe that SG does not possess the intellectual capacity to read in full and meaningfully absorb the court ruling about the Tavistock.

And it shows.

This.

[RozWatching]

And just to cheer you all up, Stonewall are backing away from Mermaids.
They have tweeted organisations that will support families, and Mermaids are not on the list.

Really? And they were so incensed when the BBC dropped Mermaids.

[Collidascope]

Transwoman who changed as an adult talking about it reducing the need for facial and voicebox surgery, erm, only if you are male, I don't know of any transmen who have had this, plus if most desist without blockers you are saving the ones who'd desist from medication and surgery.

Yeah, they sure know who the females are and who the males are when it comes to who gets priority re transition, don't they? Much harder for a post-puberty transwoman to pass, so even though the majority of kids wanting to "change gender" are girls, we have to focus on the urgency of stopping puberty for the boys, and if a whole lot of girls are collateral damage, well, who cares?

[MichelleofzeResistance]

simply won't be bothered enough to read a 38 page court judgement.

I know you're right. It just staggers me.

If you were an organisation who closely worked with an organisation who was the subject of this judgement or sent vulnerable families to this organisation and would be supporting them with the outcome of this judgement...….?

Wouldn't any workplace have assembled everyone this morning with a whole bunch of highlighter pens and be going through the judgement line by line establishing exactly what it said, what it means in practical terms, and what they need to do in terms of practice change from today?

MN readers and GC organisations had put up relevant key paragraphs from the judgement within an hour or two of it being released yesterday.

Fact based reality vs emotion creating reality. The dichotomy is getting really clear.

[BettyDuKeiraBellisMyShero]

@nauticant

Oh, it's the inevitable transwoman who didn't undergo the treatments themself but thinks that children definitely should go through them.

One of the many adult transpeople who by their very existence, proves that natal puberty isn’t fatal?

Good.