Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

The Queens Gambit

82 replies

Destinysdaughter · 01/12/2020 19:51

Has anyone seen this? It was a brilliant piece of filmmaking and had me in bits at the end. But, what was striking about it for me was firstly, there was no sexual abuse in it. So, the scenes where she played chess in the basement, I expected the old janitor to have sexual designs on her. But he didn't. And then, when she was adopted, I expected the husband to be sexually abusive towards her, but he wasn't.

And then, when she kept on winning against men after men, she experienced no misogyny, just respect and support

And although that was so lovely and refreshing to see, part of me thought, no that would never happen in the real world!

Maybe I've just become too cynical and too expectant of sexism and misogyny but I found it a bit idealistic in terms of what a young, attractive woman would have experienced in that world?

OP posts:
sweetkitty · 01/12/2020 21:09

I’ve got just the last episode to watch it’s so good. I love the fashion as well (shallow)

Queenest · 01/12/2020 21:10

Agree. It really makes a refreshing change.

But yes, does it mean it’s not true to real life or is just not what we expect from today’s telly?

Greektome · 01/12/2020 21:18

This encouraged me to read up on the family of girl/women chess champions - the Polgar family from Hungary. There were 3 daughters. 2 of them became women's world champion, and the youngest - Judit - is the greatest female player of all time.
With difficulty, she managed to play in the men's world championship (they resisted). At her peak, if I remember right, she got to Number 8 in the world. She emphasises that there is a big gulf between the women's game and the men's game.
Fascinatingly, the girls' father believed that being extremely successful at something was down to hard work, not to natural ability. The parents deliberately planned to raise geniuses. They discussed, before conception, what the children would become geniuses in. Decided on chess, and then home-educated with massive focus on chess from a very young age. Apparently the first daughter beat her father (a chess trainer) at chess when aged 5.

ferretface · 01/12/2020 21:20

In the book she does experience abuse, from another girl at the children's home. I'm glad the TV show took the decision to edit that out.

Greektome · 01/12/2020 21:21

I'd like to see a film based around this approach to genius/success - which we've also seen in the Williams tennis family in America, and maybe in the Jackson 5 family? Rather than more films about a natural born genius - eg. Good Will Hunting.

JustaPatioWithAspirations · 01/12/2020 21:22

You would like that film about the woman who hikes the Pacific Trail and doesn't get raped OP. It's so refreshing! I've forgotten what it's called now - walk?

NoNever · 01/12/2020 21:27

@JustaPatioWithAspirations

You would like that film about the woman who hikes the Pacific Trail and doesn't get raped OP. It's so refreshing! I've forgotten what it's called now - walk?
Wild. It’s also a really good book.
Lettera · 01/12/2020 21:34

I waited in trepidation for her to be abused and it was surprising and wonderful that she wasn't! I thought the relationship that developed between her and her Mum was very moving.

JustaPatioWithAspirations · 01/12/2020 21:50

Thankyou

ParadiseLaundry · 01/12/2020 22:03

I agree with you all and also the PP who said how lovely it was that her mother turned out to be really kind.

persistentwoman · 01/12/2020 22:09

It was one of those programmes that I was so sad when it finished. I was completely engrossed - and I loved the ending! (won't mention it for those who have yet to finish it) but it was just so grounded and heartwarming.

peanut2017 · 01/12/2020 22:11

Totally felt the same but if we reflect on that for a moment isn't that really messed up that this is what we expect to see as women and also maybe have experienced ourselves

Was a brilliant tv show and great to see such a great female lead

MrGHardy · 01/12/2020 22:13

Magnus Carlsen made a similar comment, saying it was refreshing to not see sexism but instead focus on her being her, being amazing at chess and that

CousinKrispy · 01/12/2020 22:30

I was thinking the same thing about the series, OP. It makes me wonder how often the violence we see inflicted on women in most dramas is truly necessary for the story, and how often it's actually fetishizing the victimisation of women.

And the CLOTHES!

Isadora2007 · 01/12/2020 22:34

Can anyone explain what happened between her and Townes in the hotel when she drank beer after? I was so confused. Was he gay? Not gay? Did they sleep together? What happened?!?!

HecatesCats · 01/12/2020 22:38

It's wonderful. I love that at points along the way she's rescued by women. Women who've been let down by patriarchy and how she can see that too. I especially enjoy it when they've turned your expectations upside down. I haven't seen all the episodes so won't stick around on this thread, but for example I was expecting the nice guy to be the one to pull her out of her spiral downwards and for her to settle for him (because that's what we're conditioned to expect isn't it), but then her girlfriend turns up.

MondayYogurt · 02/12/2020 09:46

Had anyone read the book?

There's a scene in the car driving back from the school after she's been adopted where her step father looks at her in the mirror and yes, all my red flags went up.
Scott Frank adapted and directed it, he also did Logan, and I wonder if he's just someone who really understands how we are socialised to pick up these signals.

Billi77 · 02/12/2020 10:18

Having spent my childhood on the chess ‘circuit’ my experience assure that chessy men are a lovely bunch whose focus is on chess.

HotSince63 · 02/12/2020 10:48

Can anyone explain what happened between her and Townes in the hotel when she drank beer after? I was so confused. Was he gay? Not gay? Did they sleep together? What happened?!?!

To me that scene strongly implied he was gay (on the entrance of his male friend) and if I recall correctly he later told her he only wanted to be her friend.

CousinKrispy · 02/12/2020 11:05

Yeah I'm guessing he was gay but, given the time period, thought he "should" be with women instead of men (or possibly was bi) and thought Beth was amazing because of course she was. So maybe was about to attempt to kiss her but then was interrupted by the boyfriend coming in.

dotdotdot3 · 02/12/2020 16:36

@MondayYogurt

Had anyone read the book?

There's a scene in the car driving back from the school after she's been adopted where her step father looks at her in the mirror and yes, all my red flags went up.
Scott Frank adapted and directed it, he also did Logan, and I wonder if he's just someone who really understands how we are socialised to pick up these signals.

Yes - it's a really good book, better than the TV show, which is not to say I didn't hugely enjoy the Netflix version.

There are several points of divergence from the original which raise all sorts of questions about how texts are adapted and altered for today's audiences, in particular with regard to race, sex, drugs etc.

Firstly, and most controversially, there is a scene in the book where Jolene (teenage) pressures Beth (aged 8) into mutual masturbation, which Beth rejects. It's not presented as abuse as such, but more as part of orphanage life. Jolene is not depicted as lesbian. After Beth's rejection, they are hostile to each other, with Beth using the 'n' word to Jolene, and Jolene responding by calling Beth a 'cracker'. Throughout the book, Beth thinks about Jolene and wonders what happened to her - they do meet up, and Jolene helps Beth through exercise and sport, which she's studied at university. Jolene does not fund Beth's trip to Russia, and when Beth tries to ring her when she's on her way there, Jolene is not home. They don't have conversations about Jolene being a guardian angel etc. Beth admires and looks up to Jolene, and she misses her throughout the story. In the TV show, Jolene disappears in the middle.

Secondly, the Townes character is very minor. Beth does have a crush on him but he only features in the book very briefly. Later in the text, Beth reflects on how Townes was her adolescent crush, but that Benny is a better fit because they are intellectual equals.

Thirdly, the match in Paris where Beth loses - this is almost entirely rewritten. There is no 'Cleo' character, she doesn't lose because she gets drunk or high, she just loses, while struggling with her addiction. The loss is presented more as an ordinary part of the level she's reached, but with her particular issues around growing up and trying to leave the props (drugs and alcohol) behind.

Overall, the book as a whole is structured more closely around the idea of a series of games, with (I think) the central idea that 'white' will always be more likely to win because 'white' makes the first move. 'Black' wins are dependent on the error of the other player. So there's a big acknowledgement that 'white' has all the advantages. A great many of the metaphors are based around chess.

There are other differences, but these are main points. In many places the TV show follows the book word for word.

Walter Tevis also wrote a book called Mockingbird, which is pitched somewhere between Brave New World and Fahrenheit 45. It's sci-fi, and imagines a future where robots are in charge and humans are dumbed down by drugs to the point they neither think nor read books. Tevis' themes would seem to be championing intellectual life, and concern about modern culture across a range of issues. It's well worth a read.

BoomBoomsCousin · 02/12/2020 16:49

I thought it was visually stunning, but at the end it felt very unfinished. Like there was little point to the tale.

I agree it was refreshing not to see sexual abuse used as a hook.

I was less impressed by the absence of sexism in the chess world. It made the whole thing ridiculous. Basically NO women play chess but they isn’t any sexism? So the only reason there aren’t any female chess players is because they don’t want to do it? Yet there were hoards of female chess fans around her in Russia. I thought the absence of the pressures of sexism was its self a bit misogynistic.

Greektome · 02/12/2020 18:07

Women are apparently not at the very top of the game. Even Judid Polgar wasn't in the top few.

Greektome · 02/12/2020 18:08

Judit

MrsTwitcher · 02/12/2020 18:12

I am watching and loving it, was tranquillising childrens in orphanages common in those days?