Irish Times : Man has suddenly realised why so few women exercise outside. Other men!

[334bu]

www.irishtimes.com/sport/other-sports/it-s-shocking-how-men-have-driven-women-away-from-exercising-in-public-1.4422925

What a surprise!

I gave up running outside for this reason, and saved up for a treadmill instead.

Not as exhilarating as being out in the fresh air, but some men are fucking sleazebags.

Contrary to what blokes (and some women) believe, it's not flattering having people shouting about your arse or tits when you're out minding your own business It's actually intimidating and scary.

Great article

I think this is the original Twitter thread he's writing about;

''Globally, during adolescence, ‘girls’ worlds shrink, while boys’ expand’. One study finds that the map of 14-yo girls’ day-to-day movements is 2/5 the size of that of their 11-yo selves, and only 1/3 the size of 14-yo male peers’ movements.
The shrinking of teenage girls’ access to public space correlates to reduction in girls’ ability to exercise. ''

threadreaderapp.com/thread/1323616208944549890.html

archive.is/v9x5J

I lost my car and have been walking or biking frequently. I'm not bothered by horns beeping at me, but when men stop and ask if I need a ride, in fairly isolated areas, I get quite nervous.

Recently one guy parked in front of me and walked towards me, and kept pestering me about getting a ride, and I kept saying "No" and hopped back on the bike. He seemed creepy as hell, too.

I refuse to let men keep me locked up indoors, though, and still continue to do my exercise routines outdoors in safer areas, and with mace in my pocket.

I don't want to appear like a troll (because I guess this sounds a bit like "oh but men suffer more violence" - not what I intend) but this caught my eye:

"But study after study in country after country has shown that teenage girls are reluctant to go running in parks because of young lads hanging out, on their bikes or off them."

I was mugged in a park while jogging as a teenager. I changed my behavior completely. So to me, does this suggest women have experienced this more (I am not sure about this, it's a different threat but boys get mugged more) or are just more aware of it even if nothing has happened to them personally (yet)? I think boys/men would feel 'invincible' and think nothing would happen to them. Like what I am trying to say is do girls/women perceive possible threats differently than men? Or is it simply the threat is just a lot greater (sexual assault / rape vs mugging, maybe a few punches but likely not being stabbed if one complies)?

Or is it simply the threat is just a lot greater

For me it's always been this. Me and my partner used to live in a country with a lot of crime, especially home invasions (I.e. armed men breaking into the house in the middle of the night). The fear of rape was always top of my mind - far beyond any other fear.

MrGHardy it is made very clear through their looks, words and actions that many males think that they have some sort of ownership over our bodies from the time we start to grow breasts. For most if not all young teenage girls this is frightening and intimidating. There was a recent thread on this, and it was notable that for most of the women posting this behaviour began when they were young and alone in public.

MrG
No, it's a fair point.
Young males are statistically more at risk from being mugged.

Professional muggers see young males as being more likely to be in possession of the latest smartphone, cash, expensive watch etc. But thankfully, although being mugged is more likely for men than it is for women it's still pretty rare.

Women, we get the comments the constant low level lewd, or overt sexual comments but it's ALL the time.

Blokes do it when other blokes are out of earshot, or they just catcall in front of their mates and don't care, but this is the reason that really puts you off going outside in your leggings.

On my bike I've literally had blokes shout at me from the pavement to "cheer up darling" I mean, I'm on the fucking road watching out for my safety why are you telling me to change my face for you? That's just one example. The comments are incessant.

Without this going into a rant about disrespect, it basically makes you worried that for each "harmless comment" there is an increased risk of proper assault eg sex assault. Whether or not that even materialises.

My son was the victim of two potential muggings , once at sixteen and the next when he was about 20. In both cases his attacker discovered he was not the easy mark that they expected. If his twin sister had been the victim the outcomes would have been very different. Young males might be more often the victim of Street violence but they are also much more able to protect themselves and this affects how they perceive their world and how they move around it

It was interesting that when this was discussed on Newstalk on Monday evening, Ciaran Cuddihy was totally on board and understood the issue - but (as in the IT comments section) as per usual the men came on and said "well young men are statistically more likely to be attacked by groups of young men" etc etc etc - maybe, but who ends up raped? And who are the ones who are out on trial for their behaviour and their "oh, you should not have been running alone in a park in tight leggings" when they are raped or murdered??

For God's sake. MUGGING IS NOT THE SAME CLASS OF CRIME AS RAPE.

(Sorry about the shouting. Can't help myself.)

This is not difficult to see. Even if you're male. All you have to do is imagine how you'd feel if every time you went anywhere, or even at home, you were under constant threat of being buggered. Accompanied by constant, everywhere, reminders by comments and shouts and harassment that it happens All. The. Time. Plus if it does happen, you're left with lifelong consequences. At the very least, you won't get another erection for years. You could have an anal fistula plus incontinence. But you have the luxury of never being in danger of getting pregnant from the atrocity or having to deal with sanctimonious boogers yammering at you that you're too deluded to know what you need for your own life and body.

Certainly, mugging is horrible. It's in a very different class of horrible though, and men know it. Otherwise they'd be as cavalier about sharing prison cells with bigger thugs than they are as they are about rape.

Anyway, just wanted to say that the article is very good. Kind of "Jesus H. Christ! You didn't know this??!!" But he's good enough to realize that himself, and it's excellent that men are starting to admit the problem.

I think that fear of crime for women will always be greater. I do go out alone and I rarely see another woman, that has an impact, and the I know I'm not going to be able to defend myself, my husband is 6'2" and tells of times when someone has given him agro and he's been able to intimidate someone with his size, it gives him confidence.

Physical size is such an underestimated factor in this too, I think. I'm 5'11", broad shoulders, a bit porky to be honest but the overall impact is that I look big, not round. I feel less vulnerable as a result as men don't often target me for the low level street harrasment; given the chance, they pick on the 5' 3" woman instead. In an attack of any kind I'd be useless as I'm not strong, but I look like I might be, so again, I'm a less obvious target. I really don't think many men appreciate what it must be like being significantly smaller & weaker.

I've recently got back to my peak fitness after an awful pregnancy and maternity leave and I run 40 miles a week mainly at this time of year in darkness.

I keep to main roads and recently found out that one of the roads on my running route is the scene of a rape of which the suspect was released on bail and then went on to rape another women on a night out 3 weeks later quite close to the first.

My husband doesn't want me to run that route anymore, my mum consistently tells me not to run with headphones on and it makes me angry that I have to consider it.

But actually the most upsetting aspect of being an active female runner is I can look back at my times on samsung and areas that are a bit unsafe are my best miles by almost a minute difference because even when there isnt a threat right in front me my body has instinctally reacted to fear.

My running joggers are highwaisted and tied so I have an advantage and they will have to work to take them off. I also have a safety pin in my sports bra and I use to safety pin my top to my bottoms. I wear a mans running jackets and my husbands hat to try and blur my outline although I'm 5ft3 and like many other threads on here we all know a female body.

The absolute worst is the state of mind - running for me is A to B, I dont find it a stress release, it's a task I have to complete I fundamentally believe that is because in winter you have to be on your guard. You would be stupid not to be.

I've taken up cycling around Mexico City where I live and I love it. But I'm an old woman now. I remember when I tried cycling here when I was younger and it felt so dangerous with cars driving slowly just behind me, yelling stuff.

I must have been 12 or 13 the first time an adult man shouted something inappropriate at me when I was out on my bike. And I was with my parents at the time and clearly underage - I've always looked young for my age. A year or two later my friends got flashed at on the way to school.

And then it just goes on, the man who shouts at you in the street and when you turn grabs himself and leers, the men who get too close and too chatty and won't take no for an answer, who sit too close on public transport... on and on. It's so tiring. Working from home is a relief, I don't get much of all the crap anymore, but I did walk to and from work, some of the route is quite isolated and iI wouldn't wear headphones, and I would get my phone out if I was aware a man was behind me, pretend to make a call (or actually make one), stop and let him overtake me.

I'd see a few women joggers out, never on their own, always two or three together.

And this is a surprise to him why?

Over and over women and girls talk about this that and the other. For years and years. It's reported etc etc.

And over and over a man or men say. I had no idea! Why didn't you say anything?

Metoo was a massive case in point.

I hear you all...

I am an early morning/late evening jogger, early 40's, and Malachy is spot on... Men just don't get it. The hassle that women out exercising get is enormous, and insidious. And it's not just young, pretty girls who have 'issues'. If you have a vagina, you're at risk alone in a public space purely because you have a vagina. It doesn't matter how old you are, how fat you are, how tall short or ugly you are: you're a potential target simply because you have a vagina.

Over the years I've had... the usual cat-calling and wolf-whistling, which becomes so regular you tune it out, I've had random boys grabbing my breasts in the street, I've been slow-followed around the park by men in cars. Had men on cycles block my path with their bikes and try to hassle me, have people shouting out of car windows at me: and my experience doesn't make me some 'outlier': this is the ugly reality for most women who jog or run.

I'm no supermodel, and I'm early 40's, and yes, the normal hassle lessens as I get older and become less attractive to predators, but I still get shit.

Here's my 'precautions'.

I deliberately wear a long top to cover my arse, a woolly hat so nobody sees my hair, and a cheap plastic waterproof baggy jacket to disguise my female shape.

I carry two 2lb hand-weights, which are small metal bars encased in sponge, for potential self-defence purposes.

I love sprinting, but I don't run when I'm outside because I know that if I get grabbed I'm going to need a little in the tank to fight with.

I also change my route, daily, so that any potential stalker-rapist type doesn't get to know my 'routine'.

I love listening to music when I'm exercising, but I don't wear headphones when I'm out as I prefer to be aware of potential scum before they get a chance to jump me.

I'm not bothered about being mugged. I don't have a watch, or a phone, or fancy diamonds. I'm very bothered about being raped. Again. Or stalked, again. And yes, I know statistically I'm more likely to be raped indoors by somebody I know, but every time I jog past the church, I think about the girl who was raped there fifteen years ago. Every time I pass the corner of the park I think about the woman who was raped there six years ago. The other corner of the park where another woman suffered, three years ago.

I still go out.