eeek! pronouns (or not as the case may be)

[museumum]

I'm at an 'online conference' where there are online 'conference badges' where we were asked to put name, pronouns, one line bio and photo. I am one of less than ten out of 200 who haven't put pronouns.... I'm a bit scared to be honest.... this is my livelihood... not sure tbh how long i'll last before deleting my badge entirely.

[stupid stupid stupid situation.... don't need this hassle at all thank you]

There is always the woke-friendly argument that some trans people feel that encouraging pronouns on badges etc forces them into outing themselves or misgendering themselves / upsetting those still trying to decide

To be stated with an expression of incredulity at the organisers' insensitivity at even suggesting something as oppressive as pronouns.

Here you go

Thanks Hermione, that’s great. I might try using that on some of my woke colleagues and act shocked that they could be so transphobic (probably as a result of their extreme cis privilege).

I would say I really struggle with the concept of gender (not really a lie, I struggle with it because it’s damaging for women) and would like a further explanation
Make them “do the work” as they like to say

Like dumpling (and work in similarly "woke" field in academia), when colleague in departmental meeting suggested pronouns in signatures, they were shot down in flames by the head of dept. I know the views of at least half of my colleagues on this subject, and they would never announce their pronouns.

@GCAcademic they will if they want to keep cashing those grant cheques. Must be about time for some more cuts in academia. Wonder who will be first 🤔

Nah, just got a grant and been promoted, thanks for your concern @RedtreesRedtrees. Another GC colleague has just got a mega grant too. No need for any pronouns whatsoever!

I hope it won’t come to this at my work. If it does, I’d just simply say ‘I don’t do pronouns’ , I know it sounds confrontational, but I have the ‘privileges’ of being a woman in a male dominated industry, and Asian and I m quite brash, so fingers crossed hopefully I could get away with it...

‘Promoted’ lol.

I think I would respond with some like 'oh my goodness, am I also expected to put put my colour, religion and sexuality too?'
That might give them good for thought?

@RedtreesRedtrees

‘Promoted’ lol.

Lol? What a peculiar reaction to someone's promotion.

If asked ‘I have no desire to put myself. It’s triggering’.

It really is no ones damn business how you feel.

@dumpling23 oooh I am jealous of your TERF line manager. Wish I had one. I used to think she was sensible but I’m not so sure any longer. Your department sounds great.
Mine is pretty woke-dominated with a smattering of people who don’t give a shit and will do anything for an easy life. When it was trans day of remembrance, we got a lengthy email from management telling us we had to be allies and how pronouns make gender diverse students feel so welcome etc. I don’t think we have a single trans student in our entire department. It did still suggest that the pronouns were optional though, so I ignored the request. I’ve noticed a large amount of senior management with them in their emails though, so I definitely think pressure has been applied somewhere. These are largely men and women in their 50s, most of them former profs, so not the type I’d automatically expect it from. I suspect they’ve had some quite forceful diversity training and been told that they will come across as hateful if they don’t do it.

Congratulations on the promotion and the grant, @GCAcademic!

www.vice.com/en/article/kzmy39/pronouns-at-work-trans-nonbinary

Good grief, the one who puts a hand up (like a police officer stopping traffic?) and just says, "Pronouns!" to their employer...

And the chef who is 'forced' to use the ladies toilet at work because no gender neutral one is provided (there's a gents, though, obviously) and is then forced to deal with confused and anxious women customers who assume they have blundered into the wrong toilet.

Clearly his feelings trump theirs, every time.

Thanks @lionheart. I do understand the distress to trans and non binary persons about being out at work and stuff and I use preferred pronouns for students and staff. That’s not the same as forcing everyone to use them, even if they are not trans or NB. Even if you do force people to do so, it’s never going to stop them from instantly recognising someone as either male or female. That bit is innate so me pretending that the only thing that labels me as female is me stating my pronouns is ludicrous. For trans people who pass, people will use the pronoun they prefer automatically. For those who don’t pass but are clearly transgender and have a name associated with the opposite sex, most polite people will probably try to use the one corresponding with the gender identity. This is out of politeness rather than a belief that someone has changed sex. For those who haven’t made any effort to transition (eg Danielle Muscato), I don’t actually have much sympathy at all.

In none of these circumstances will it make a difference if I state my pronouns to be she/her. They are not my pronouns because I have some affinity with them and they say nothing about my identity. They are used to describe me because I am female. People can choose to misgender me if they like and it’s not going to have some psychological impact on me. If they call me ‘he’ I will just think they’re a bit odd but it’s not going to hurt me. If they call me ‘they’, fair enough. People can choose how they want to refer to me. Most of the time I am not there when they use pronouns to describe me anyway (although sometimes I am)

I haven't backed down. I think about 15 of us out of 250 have left the pronoun field blank.
I am finding it quite challenging just how much I care that some of the others might think I'm a hateful bigoted person who doesn't want to let people be 'their authentic self'. Or that I'm homophobic. Actually I think it's the homophobic label that makes me the most uncomfortable as I have many lesbian friends and some lesbian family and am quite 'non-conforming' myself in many ways.

@RedtreesRedtrees It's not at all the case that it's a problem. They're big on pronouns etc in the SU, but they don't distribute the grants .
There are still a lot of grownups in academia. In my department, those pushing pronouns did not cover themselves in glory as it was pointed out that they'd signed up to a belief system that says humans can change sex (spoiler alert: they can't!). In a university, admitting to an anti-science belief system is really not the win they seem to think.

@RealityNotEssentialism
Your uni has been Stonewalled. To get their awards, they need to make statements on trans day of remembrance and actively support pronouns - hence what you are seeing.
It's very painful to see adults in their 50s who should know better putting pronouns in their email signature. I feel your pain!

@RealityNotEssentialism

Thanks *@lionheart*. I do understand the distress to trans and non binary persons about being out at work and stuff and I use preferred pronouns for students and staff. That’s not the same as forcing everyone to use them, even if they are not trans or NB. Even if you do force people to do so, it’s never going to stop them from instantly recognising someone as either male or female. That bit is innate so me pretending that the only thing that labels me as female is me stating my pronouns is ludicrous. For trans people who pass, people will use the pronoun they prefer automatically. For those who don’t pass but are clearly transgender and have a name associated with the opposite sex, most polite people will probably try to use the one corresponding with the gender identity. This is out of politeness rather than a belief that someone has changed sex. For those who haven’t made any effort to transition (eg Danielle Muscato), I don’t actually have much sympathy at all.

In none of these circumstances will it make a difference if I state my pronouns to be she/her. They are not my pronouns because I have some affinity with them and they say nothing about my identity. They are used to describe me because I am female. People can choose to misgender me if they like and it’s not going to have some psychological impact on me. If they call me ‘he’ I will just think they’re a bit odd but it’s not going to hurt me. If they call me ‘they’, fair enough. People can choose how they want to refer to me. Most of the time I am not there when they use pronouns to describe me anyway (although sometimes I am)

I agree.