Stephen Fry is level headed about Cambridge.

[AvocadoBathroom]

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/stephen-fry-joins-chorus-criticising-cambridge-free-speech-policy-lsbd5nq5f

And of course he narrates The Ickabod

He's normally v much on the woke side IIRC.

If I was cynical I might suspect he's speaking up now he can see consequences for himself. Good job I'm not.

Good.

A lot of rational people (some of whom possibly don't particularly give a shit about women's rights) do care about free speech and thought.

Ah, but don’t forget that Fry gave us-

“It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so fucking what."

I couldn't read the whole article. Is Fry in favour of 'tolerant' rather than 'respectful'?

I agree with him on offence. It's very difficult for me not to refer to the deep offence that I feel when men appropriatively refer to themselves as women. But at the end of the day of course I'll tolerate those views even though I can't respect them.

I resist being forced to pretend that I agree.

I resist being forced to pretend that I agree.

Or to believe that it is morally wrong to have concerns, doubts or different opinions to a set orthodoxy, particularly when it wishes to trump objective reality.

Or to believe that anyone who doesn't think like me or who I don't personally approve of should be silenced, punished and erased from my reality. Because that's plain batshit.

Share token

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/11d532cc-315b-11eb-9ce2-e80c572086aa?shareToken=d64ac455a5553d10e45217daad77ae47

Excellent. Really hope tolerance prevails

Thank you, LaPufalina.

Or to believe that it is morally wrong to have concerns, doubts or different opinions to a set orthodoxy, particularly when it wishes to trump objective reality. Or to believe that anyone who doesn't think like me or who I don't personally approve of should be silenced, punished and erased from my reality. Because that's plain batshit.

Indeed, Michelleofzeresistance.

Fry has always been a flag waver for free speech.

Thanks for share token.

Agreed tolerance (and of the goes both ways variety which also fosters resilience in the face of different beliefs that challenge your own) is to be aspired to. Respect cannot be compelled and you certainly can't respect those who have no tolerance for dissent.

The word respect seems to have lost all meaning. It's come to mean if you disagree with me you need to shut up about it.

I couldn't finish the article, either. But one thing thing he says which is true, is that you cannot force respect. It doesn't exist as something that you can demand.

They are lying if they are using the word respect to mean something that is controlled by the person demanding it.

I totally agree with Stephen Fry’s take that it is okay to say things that offend and hurt others. Being abusive is not ok, but the truth does sometimes hurt people. Being dismissive, minimising, undermining people are all abusive behaviours that happen on all sides of the trans debate. That is not ok.

Shutting down conversation is definitely the biggest issue of this debate. I think that sometimes both sides are guilty of not realising that the point of any debate is never, ever about winning over the other side, on most issues that is simply not possible. Rather it is about bringing the majority to your side. That is winning the debate. I have watched so many utterly toxic debates happen around me in Ireland because we regularly have constitutional referendums. They are all down in the trenches dirty - as dirty as this debate is with bells on.

This is the first time I have seen expressing a view being so utterly shut down by the journalistic establishment. That is the biggest change I’ve seen here in what I’ve seen in public discord. We are on the wrong side compared to the mostly liberal mostly laissez faire journalists. But I can imagine at the very start of the women’s liberation movement it was the exact same.

The policy, backed by the vice-chancellor, would require Cambridge’s academics, students and visiting speakers to treat others and their opinions with “respect”.

Surely that works both ways? So I as a woman say men can't become women and that should be respected? Or am I not understanding this?

"This has nothing to do with “sides” or particular issues. Think of the human attitude or political philosophy you believe to be among the most wicked and dangerous in the world. Do you consent to being forced to respect it?"

Quite. The

I didn't intend the "the". Just a one word reflection on Fry's words.

@20shadesofgreen well said.