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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Suzanne Moore article in Daily Mail

48 replies

Awning10 · 25/11/2020 07:18

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8984313/Columnist-Suzanne-Moore-reveals-left-Guardian-betrayed-bullied.html

OP posts:
ThePawtriarchy · 25/11/2020 07:21

You can see her full article here - unherd.com/2020/11/why-i-had-to-leave-the-guardian/?=frlh

Jiggeriepokerie · 25/11/2020 07:46

Good to see this getting some MSM coverage.

MaudesMum · 25/11/2020 08:15

The Unherd article is brilliant. I don't see how anyone who claims to be a feminist can read it and not respect her track record and her perspective.

OvaHere · 25/11/2020 08:33

The Unherd piece is bloody fantastic. I recommend everyone read it.

2Rebecca · 25/11/2020 08:42

Agree. I like both the Unherd piece and the DM article

RoyalCorgi · 25/11/2020 09:33

The Daily Mail one is mostly drawn from the Telegraph interview (behind a paywall) and the Unherd article. It then in typical Mail Online fashion rehashes all the trans/free speech-related issues of the past few months, right down to Laurence Fox. Worth a read, nonetheless.

SpaceOp · 25/11/2020 09:55

The content of the unherd piece is great. But she's clearly missing sub editors! Grin

The Guardian's approach in all this has been shocking. It scares me that I get better writing and insight into feminist issues from The Telegraph than the Guardian as a rule.

weebarra · 25/11/2020 09:58

I think everyone should read the unherd piece. Sent it on to a couple of friends. I wish I was brave enough to share it on SM but I'm not.

tallulahwullah · 25/11/2020 10:00

Yes such a refreshing piece I have been feeling lots of these opinions recently but felt couldn't air them!

CatsCantCatchCriminals2 · 25/11/2020 10:02

SM is excellent as is the Unherd piece.

Thank you OP for posting this.

BraveBananaBadge · 25/11/2020 10:10

Brilliant writing from Suzanne in Unherd, thanks for sharing. Clarity and truth, just like JKR’s essay.

She makes another interesting point about Amnesty in Poland, too. They really are abhorrent.

BettyDuKeiraBellisMyShero · 25/11/2020 10:10

Wow.

Photo caption from the Unherd piece:

“I have even less fucks to give than I did before.”

Needmoresleep · 25/11/2020 10:18

RoyalCorgi, with the huge amount of free content on the internet, paid for journalism is struggling. Each has a different model. The Guardian asks for subscriptions/donations, which may be problematic for editorial impartiality. The Times is behind a paywall. The Mail is free to access, but has a lot of click-bait articles and content which is taken from elsewhere (MN!).

The Mail has been targeted a number of times for not having the "right" views. Even today if you google a story the Guardian always seems to come up first and if you want a free-to-access link other than the Guardian you either need to scroll down to the next page, or add mailonline to your search criteria. Not that long ago there was a major campaign to deter advertisers, similar to the way in which MN advertisers have been targeted.

The Mail editorial policy has shifted under their current editor to a younger, more central, ground. They still print a range of views, from Laurence Fox to Julie Bindel. I like that. I like reading something well argued but something I disagree with and knowing why I disagree. And sometimes reevaluating my own views. To be honest I now find both the Guardian and NYT unreadable. Way too preachy, and not enough intellectual challenge. And am pleased that the Mail doggedly defends freedom of speech.

(Having said that, a lot of Mail content is piss poor. Their business model seems to require them to churn out masses of clickbait content on a low budget.)

ErrolTheDragon · 25/11/2020 10:26

This morning DH told me he'd been reading an article on unherd by an ex guardian journalist and had come across this really interesting concept of 'policy capture'.Grin

Tootsweets23 · 25/11/2020 10:48

Bloody hell that Unherd piece should be read by every one of the 338 "colleagues" who signed that idiotic sinister letter.

As for Kath Viner. What a disaster. A decent editor would have spent the past 10 years investigating and owning the issue of gender ideology and trans issues. It is perfect Guardian territory, of interest to all their readership groups - teachers, prisons, law, social work, psychologists, woksters, older lefties, feminists, LGBT, parents. Even sports fans.

There is so much under the hood that needs investigation that is too many to list - kids, prison policies, mainstreaming of fetishes, impact of porn, availability and suitability of mental health services, police and the law, scientific and pharmaceutical developments, the practice of people bypassing medical standards by getting medication online or flying overseas for cowboy surgery. Then there is the campaign for self ID and mainstreaming of gender ideology - where does it come from, who funds it and who benefits? Then the campaign against gender ideology - same questions, who funds it (err we do), who benefits (err, ditto). Then the backlash to the campaign against gender ideology - the women losing jobs, de-platforming etc etc.

Journalistically I can't understand how Kath Viner could have side stepped such a huge, fascinating and impactful issue. You look at the bravery of editors in the past - the Boston Globe on child abuse in the Catholic church. Watergate. A brave editor and a good journalist wouldn't haven't been able to avoid covering it - they would have had to scratch that itch and to hell with the consequences.

The only conclusion I can come to is that KV is crap. She isn't a very good journalist, isn't a good editorial leader, isn't a good manager. The signs were there when she put Semus Milne on sabbatical when he signed up to be Corbyn's comms director. That was a massive red flag that her judgement was fucked.

Needmoresleep · 25/11/2020 11:08

Or KV knows the paper is reliant financially on some major US donors who will expect the Guardian to reflect one brand of US cultural thinking. It not just the Guardian. The NYT is similarly uncritical.

Tootsweets23 · 25/11/2020 11:25

Potentially @Needmoresleep but even so, that come with a hefty editorial cost and not just on this issue. A wiser editor I think would have seen the massive elephant traps a mile off.

RoyalCorgi · 25/11/2020 11:38

Journalistically I can't understand how Kath Viner could have side stepped such a huge, fascinating and impactful issue.

I'm not sure whether it's because she buys wholeheartedly into the TRA agenda or whether, as Peter Wilby said in the New Statesman, she is so desperate for money from the lucrative US market, that the editorial content is increasingly targeted at US woke liberals rather than the traditional Guardian audience. Perhaps a bit of both.

We all know that the Guardian is losing its traditional loyal UK readership but perhaps she doesn't care?

Here's the Wilby article for anyone who hasn't seen it:
www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2020/11/first-thoughts-how-suzanne-moore-split-guardian

hamstersarse · 25/11/2020 11:42

Go woke go broke

That is what is happening to the Guardian.

The fact that 'proper' left wing people can now only associate themselves with organisations like Unherd is so brilliant. Unherd to the typical 2020 lefty is an alt-right publication Grin

Minesril · 25/11/2020 11:45

Really pleased that Hadley Freeman apparently defended her in that meeting, wonder if she'll leave as well?

hamstersarse · 25/11/2020 11:45

Freddie Sayers is also unfeasibly handsome

fatblackcatspaw · 25/11/2020 11:47

The Guardian is getting money to push trans issues by Open Society Foundation. I'm not sure how much it is but I thought it was hundreds of thousands. We have to get to the funding. Follow the money.

JamieLeeCurtains · 25/11/2020 11:50

Just read it. Excellent stuff.

TweeBree · 25/11/2020 11:50

If Hadley leaves, it will be a huge blow. Her articles, including her recent interview with Michael J Fox, are always all over social media. She must get tons of views.

TalkingtoLangClegintheDark · 25/11/2020 12:01

@ErrolTheDragon

This morning DH told me he'd been reading an article on unherd by an ex guardian journalist and had come across this really interesting concept of 'policy capture'.Grin
Grin Grin Grin