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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

98% of those murdered globally were trans women - fake news on internal work groups

52 replies

murmurgam · 23/11/2020 08:49

This particular snippet

"98% of those murdered globally were trans women"

Appeared on an internal work message board last week. Do organisations have a duty to ensure that information that is published internally is not misleading?

OP posts:
Ereshkigalangcleg · 23/11/2020 10:13

Though you would think they would give the figure. I suggest that they have patchy information about some of the people.

ImaSababa · 23/11/2020 10:18

Whatever the true number, the fact remains that it isn't women/feminists/"TERFS" who are killing them. It's men.

Aesopfable · 23/11/2020 10:24

@Ereshkigalangcleg

There are 100k plus people murdered globally a year. 98k plus are not MTF trans people.
More like 450,000
EarthSight · 23/11/2020 10:27

98% of those murdered? I fucking doubt that because they do not represent a significant portion of the population to begin with. I bet you the homosexual figure is higher than the trans, and the female figure would be higher still. Just nonsense.

RoyalCorgi · 23/11/2020 10:28

It makes sense that globally trans women are more likely to be murdered than trans men, because so many work in the sex industry. Prostituted women are 60 to 100 times more likely to be murdered than other women:

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18319375/

Clymene · 23/11/2020 10:40

The appalling stats don't really fit with the sex work is work narrative

Melroses · 23/11/2020 10:56

Most of the 350 are usually quoted as being from Brazil, which has a high murder rate, especially of those in the sex industry.

" Some facts about murders in Brazil. There were 47,000 murders last year - the lowest no. In years. If trans people make up 0.5-1 % of the population you would ‘expect’ between 235 & 470 murders. Stonewall says there were 167 last year. WTF is going on?!?! "

So that was interesting. Even in Brazil, transition is associated with a reduced murder rate.

nauticant · 23/11/2020 11:02

That's an artifact of "trans isn't one thing". Among the grouping of "trans" there will be disproportionate numbers of young middle class women identifying as men (a very low risk group) and transwomen who are sex workers (a very high risk group).

CatsCantCatchCriminals2 · 23/11/2020 11:04

@Clymene

The appalling stats don't really fit with the sex work is work narrative

Bloody inconvenient for some of our posters here.

LostAcre · 23/11/2020 11:49

That figure definitely needs some context.

Without that context of it being 98% of trans / gender diverse victims, it would be very easy to interpret it as meaning 98% of all murder victims. Aside from anything else, that statement risks unnecessarily scaring transwomen.

Al77 · 23/11/2020 12:02

From Channel 4 fact check:

1 October 2017 and 30 September 2018” there was one trans person murdered in the UK in that time

Figuresfrom the ONS for 2008 to 2017show that the average adult in England and Wales has a one-in-100,000 chance of being murdered in a given year.

A total ofnine trans people were murdered in the UKbetween 2008 and 2017. That’s an average rate of one victim per year.

Comparing UK homicide perpetration and suspect rates for male, female and trans people April 2007 – March 2018
October 17, 2019 by Karen Ingala Smith. Also dervive from the office of national statistics:
Women[i]
Total number of female homicide victims aged 16 years and over = 1,816
Total number of female homicide suspects = 445
There are 75% fewer female homicide suspects than there are victims.

2. Men*[ii]

Total number of male homicide victims aged 16 years and over = 4,288
Total number of male homicide suspects = 4,696
There are 10% more male homicide suspects than there are victims.

3. Trans people (all mtf)[iii]

Total number of trans homicide victims aged 16 years and over = 8
Total number of trans homicide suspects = 12
There are 50% more trans-identified male homicide suspects than there are victims.

Updated 21 November 2019 to include deaths in 2019
Trans people (all mtf)[iii]
Total number of Trans homicide victims aged 16 years and over = 8
Total number of Trans homicide suspects = 13
There are 62.5% more trans-identified male homicide suspects than there are victims.

Al77 · 23/11/2020 12:14

All the trans murder victims and perpetrators for the last few decades are freely available from the Trans Murder Monitoring Project, including some who would not be officially recognised as trans but would come under the trans umbrella in the current climate:

They are all MtF Trans women. There are no FtM Trans men

Go forth confidently OP and challenge those stats on your work billboard.

WhatsthetruthRuth · 23/11/2020 12:22

The attachment is from Munroe Bergdorf’s Instagram. So yes, it’s 98% of the Trans people who were murdered last year (350 in total according to statistics gathered by an organisation Transrespect versus Transphobia) were Transwomen or Trans feminine.

And of those 350 people, 68% were sexworkers (it could be higher because the occupation of some victims were unknown) - so trans people in perilous, dangerous situations for anyone to be working in.

79% of the 29 trans people murdered in the USA were people of colour.

A shocking 82%of these murders happened in Central and South America (of those 43% in Brazil)

Grim statistics. You do not want to be a transwoman of colour working in the sex industry. And you certainly don’t want to be doing sex work on the streets of Central and South America.

Shon Faye also had some statistics on their Instagram of 20/11/20:

“Globally 62% of all Trans people murdered are women in sex work. Almost all the other trans people murdered are trans women who are killed by their own male partners”

It’s outrageous that your company used that 98% statistic out of context and in such a misleading way.The statistics that fly round regarding being transgender are often used irresponsibly. It must contribute to a constant state of fear and desperation in many trans people - it must be terrifying to be told that you are in constant danger of being murdered. Why is this terror being perpetuated? It’s to no one’s benefit is it?

I wonder what the overall murder statistics are for all sex workers in Central and South America. It’s a horrific state of affairs where life is so cheap.

98% of those murdered globally were trans women - fake news on internal work groups
Al77 · 23/11/2020 12:35

This is a summary of all murders of trans people in the UK between 2008 and Nov 2017. in reverse chronalogical order (Also by Karen Ingala Smith):

UK homicides of transgender individuals 2008-2017
Total = 7 (all biological males)

2017: 0 (as of November 2017 when Karen wrote this)

2016: 1

William Lound, a gay man who sometimes wore stereotypically female clothing, was killed by Lee Arnold, a homeless man with untreated paranoid schizophrenia and problems with substance misuse, in what media reports described as a “homophobic and transphobic murder”. Arnold pleaded guilty to killing Lound and was jailed for life in 2016. This homicide is not listed in the latest TMM report, although Lound would be considered trans under the transgender umbrella definition.

2015: 1
Vanessa Santillan was killed by partner Joaquin Gomez Hernandez who lived off Santillan’s earnings from selling sex. He denied murder and tried to blame one of Santillan’s clients. He was jailed for life.

2014: 0

2013: 0

2012: 1
Chrissie Azzopardi was killed by drug dealer Romy Maynard possibly related to money the victim owed him. Maynard was jailed for life.

2011: 1
Lionel/Susie Morl was killed by two acquaintances with substance-misuse issues who stole the victim’s disability benefits & savings. David Hardman admitted killing Morl, and both he and his accomplice Tracy Horrell were jailed for life in 2012.

2010: 1
David/Sonia Burgess sometimes wore stereotypically female clothing and presented as a woman, and was killed by Senthooran Kanagasingham, a transgender woman. Kanagasingham, who was diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia, was found guilty of manslaughter on the grounds of diminished responsibility and jailed for life in 2011.

2009: 2
Andrea Waddell was murdered by punter Neil McMillan. He was jailed for life in 2010 and subsequently jailed indefinitely after also being convicted of raping a woman a year earlier.

Destiny Lauren was murdered by punter Leon Fyle. He was jailed for life in 2010.

2008: 0

The deaths of two UK trans individuals included in the 2017 TMM report but excluded from the above list (as they are not homicides) are:

Vikki Thompson (2015) was presumably included in the TMM total after being listed in this 2016 TMM report but cannot be described as a homicide as Thompson died by suicide. As there are 2 deaths listed for 2015, we must conclude that Thompson’s death is still erroneously being included along with Vanessa Santillan’s for that year.
Jacqueline Cowdry (2013) listed in this 2014 TMM report should also not be included as a homicide as (following police investigation/post-mortem) Cowdry’s death was ruled as non-suspicious. However, as no other media reports of a trans homicide can be located for 2013, the inclusion of a homicide for that year indicates Cowdry’s death is still being erroneously included.
There are several commonalities between the circumstances of these homicides which sadly reveal the victims’ proximity to male violence and a complex interplay of factors contributing to marginalisation by society, including mental ill-health, substance misuse and poverty. These commonalities include:
Vanessa Santillan, Andrea Waddell and Destiny Lauren all sold sex which brought them into contact with the violent men who killed them. A 2012 report into violence in the sex trade in London revealed that ‘active sex workers were almost 18 times more likely to be murdered than women of similar age and race’
Chrissie Azzopardi, Lionel/Suzie Morl and William Lound were killed by a drug dealer and drug users. The Homicide Index reveals around a fifth (22%) of homicide victims were known to be drug users and around 1 in 7 (15%) of perpetrators were known to be drug dealers
William Lound and David/Sonia Burgess were both killed by perpetrators who were seriously ill with untreated paranoid schizophrenia, which unfortunately increases an individual’s risk of violence compared with other members of the general population
The majority of the victims also belonged to demographic groups known to be at increased risk of violence and hate-crime e.g. Lionel/Suzie Morl and Andrea Waddell were both living with disabilities, William Lound was gay and Destiny Lauren, David/Sonia Burgess and Vanessa Santillan were all trans people of colour.
In common with the vast majority of homicides recorded by the TMM project worldwide, the victims were all males who identified as trans women (or males who sometimes cross-dressed) and were killed by men. If we want to understand why – and therefore hopefully prevent – trans people being killed, we need to look at these commonalities and devise support strategies that address the very real problems these individuals faced.

CatsCantCatchCriminals2 · 23/11/2020 12:37

Globally 62% of all Trans people murdered are women in sex work.

Why is that then? Anyone?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 23/11/2020 14:34

More like 450,000

Quite probably, depending on how it's defined. I've seen 150k from some sources (which may be cases absolutely known to have been homicide and not disappearances, wartime etc) so just made it 100k plus to make the point clear that if 98% were trans then 98k trans people would have been killed.

andyoldlabour · 23/11/2020 14:47

So around 450,000 people killed per year globally (2017 - 464,000). 350 transgender people killed globally = roughly 0.078% of the total murder figure.

andyoldlabour · 23/11/2020 14:49

Sorry, forgot to put the link.

reliefweb.int/report/world/global-study-homicide-2019

VulvaPerson · 23/11/2020 17:33

@SpamIAm

I don't claim to be an expert in homicide statistics but that's clearly bullshit... If there's any truth to it I'd assume, as a PP has suggested, that's it 'of all murders of trans people, 98% were trans women'. I'd raise it though OP because it's so clearly incorrect.
Thats the only way it makes even a bit of sense really. However, I highly doubt that 98% of murdered transpeople are transwomen (even moreso when 'non binary' is added to the mix, as that seems to be a hugely popular identity at the min with female people). If so, thats something to unpick somewhat, for transactivists. Not that they will of course. As they don't really care about the people they supposedly represent Hmm
Ereshkigalangcleg · 23/11/2020 20:01

Thanks andy.

andyoldlabour · 24/11/2020 00:04

Ereshkigalangcleg

Thanks, I am just helping to support women, against this onslought of false information.
This is a very dangerous situation, which puts women at risk, in a variety of situations.

AvocadoBathroom · 24/11/2020 01:14

And how do they think JK Rowling killed all these people? With a piece of lead piping in the ballroom?

Coyoacan · 24/11/2020 01:52

There is a site that records the murders of transwomen, and for a nine year period when there were over a quarter of a million murders in Mexico, it recorded a little under 300 trans victims, making them the safest demographic by far.

ClosetGC · 24/11/2020 04:22

Even given the wider context (i.e. that this is the percentage of trans murder victims that are transwomen), it doesn't really provide any useful information without also stating what proportion of trans people are transwomen.

donquixotedelamancha · 24/11/2020 07:17

So around 450,000 people killed per year globally (2017 - 464,000). 350 transgender people killed globally = roughly 0.078% of the total murder figures

It's funny we don't hear more good news like this for trans people. I'm surprised that organisations whose main source of income is derived for relieving trans people from oppression don't do more to show how successful they've been.

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