Hate Crime - committee evidence session today and next week

[SusanSmithFWS]

Just to flag up that Lucy HB of Murray Blackburn MacKenzie and Claire Graham of dsdfamilies are up at 11.15 giving evidence on the controversial Hate Crime Bill today

Next week we will be up!
www.scottishparliament.tv/channel/virtual-meeting-3

[NiceGerbil]

But posters saying that etc HAVE been reported to the police and been removed etc even WITHOUT this law in place...!

So it's hardly theoretical that the next step is this is there means prosecution, is it :/

[Dances]

Becky Kauffman hosted a workshop at the Scottish Trans Alliance's conference in Glasgow last year, and stood and repeatedly told the audience to report any 'transphobic' stickers in ladies toilets etc to the Police as they would be recorded as 'hate incidents'.

Repeated this message numerous times.

Audience was full of civil servants and union officials. Was policy capture in action.

Also explained how STA targetted the Prison Service, Kauffman being an ex US prison guard

[Shedbuilder]

I think that at Westminster lying to a committee is regarded as a major transgression. Suggest Scottish women flag this up to their SMPs.

[Igneococcus]

Times article about today's hearing:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/43ce8ed4-28f2-11eb-aca7-1c9add2102c6?shareToken=c5527e27a0a274215a75fc48d206c9a0

[Shedbuilder]

Yup. Women say 'Whoa, this is going to massively affect what can be said or published' and the TRAs roll their eyes and say 'The women are paranoid, they see bogey-men round every corner and in every loo.' It's misogyny in action.

[Alicethroughtheblackmirror]

Becky only likes good little feminists who talk in approved fashion. STA aren't trying to stop debate, they just don't think some people should be heard...
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/114eb22e-7cd5-11e9-bed7-b51375720f1f

[NiceGerbil]

The piece Igneococcus linked seemed pretty even handed in the reporting to me. I think that we are getting somewhere?

No debate seems to be losing. Which is good.

We NEED to talk about this stuff. And get the right protections in place for the right people while maintaining free speech and etc.

The fact that the bit I just wrote above is seen as inflammatory etc is just bonkers but that is where we've got to.

...

The hate crime laws were brought in for good reason. The intent was good and for a while they were put to (I'm guessing) reasonable use. The omission of sex as a characteristic was always very telling. But I had no issues with eg a man getting beaten up on his way home from a gay club to a volley of homophobic abuse, or a Jewish man being kicked in with a load of anti Semitic abuse, or a black woman being clobbered with a load a racist abuse, having a HATE element as an aggravating circumstance to the crime of gbh etc.

That is what it was meant for.

How we got here. I have no idea. The hate was supposed to be an additional component to a crime committed. Not a crime in itself.

So again. While we have the police doing stop and search of black people with abandon, still. While synagogues still have to have security guards (around here) or keep their locations secret. And while "gay' is still used amongst young children as a put down, and boys and girls are still vilified in some schools by their classmates if they are perceived to be gay or lesbian up to and including violence.

What exactly is the point? It has changed nothing. It was a good idea. And yet again I have to say. Sadly as a nicey lefty type woman. It's failed in what it was created for. It's being misused.

This thing in Scotland which is also proposed in England is terrifying.

Get rid of the whole lot. Scrap it all.

The court procedure should take into account motivation, vulnerability. It always did.

The omission of women was always an egregious gap.

Bin it.

And this is what the TRAs have done. Led life long nicey lefty women who do all the charity stuff and whatnot. To say. Fuck this. Just no. No more automatic support for certain political parties or unions etc. They never looked after women anyway. We put up with it. But this is just. Too much.

[SusanSmithFWS]

@Dances

Becky Kauffman hosted a workshop at the Scottish Trans Alliance's conference in Glasgow last year, and stood and repeatedly told the audience to report any 'transphobic' stickers in ladies toilets etc to the Police as they would be recorded as 'hate incidents'.

Repeated this message numerous times.

Audience was full of civil servants and union officials. Was policy capture in action.

Also explained how STA targetted the Prison Service, Kauffman being an ex US prison guard

Dances do you know if there is an account/record of that anywhere? MBM have written to the committee with evidence of quotes from James Morton and Vic Valentine, but that would be great to have too.

[Shedbuilder]

And this is what the TRAs have done. Led life long nicey lefty women who do all the charity stuff and whatnot. To say. Fuck this. Just no. No more automatic support for certain political parties or unions etc. They never looked after women anyway. We put up with it. But this is just. Too much.

This, with knobs on. We've had enough.

Susan Smith, I think there's stuff on Twitter with screenshots of FB / Twitter conversations showing people from STA advising everyone to treat the stickers as hate crime.

[20mum]

This Hate crime against Disabled people is real. Hate crime against Old people is real. Women are the majority of the population, so how come hating women is so prevalent?
Unions and political parties never did anything to deserve women's support, so how come they ever had it?

[Alicethroughtheblackmirror]

Did anyone watch session this morning?

Cross dressing definition!!!!

[NonnyMouse1337]

Haven't been able to watch it. Following MBM thread on Twitter instead.

twitter.com/mbmpolicy/status/1331156539185491968?s=20

Also, for context, FWS have posted a really interesting summary of how hate crime discussions have played out previously. I was unaware of that.

forwomen.scot/24/11/2020/history-of-women-and-hate-crime-law/

[ArabellaScott]

I cannae see it, Alice. Will it be up on the archive later, do you think?

www.scottishparliament.tv/meetings

[BetsyM00]

Yes, the video should be on the archive later today, with the official transcript to follow in a couple of days.

I requested a couple of clips while it was playing live, so will try and post them here whenever they get round to emailing them to me.

[BetsyM00]

Video is here: www.scottishparliament.tv/meeting/justice-committee-actual-true

[ArabellaScott]

Brill, thanks so much. Well done MBM for an epic live-tweet thread, too.

[Aesopfable]

Oh look, an SNP MP committing a ‘hate crime’. I am sure this is just the sort of thing they intend to prosecute...

www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/highlands/2673868/snp-westminster-leader-faces-backlash-after-challenging-photographer-over-supposed-lockdown-breach/

[WTFSeriously]

@SusanSmithFWS I thought you did really well today, well prepped & made some excellent points. Your last comment was on point & has given me an idea. I'm just mulling it over 🤔

[SusanSmithFWS]

[quote WTFSeriously]@SusanSmithFWS I thought you did really well today, well prepped & made some excellent points. Your last comment was on point & has given me an idea. I'm just mulling it over 🤔[/quote]
Thank you! Hate the sound of my voice on film, but am glad I got the last word!

[Igneococcus]

The Times has turned off comments for this one "Saying trans women aren’t women could break the law":

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/c623f5a4-2e6f-11eb-8bd6-64d3c9126a9b?shareToken=f96e99ce9d0966ff72be80e57f693503

[BetsyM00]

There were 191 comments to that article when I read through them last night. Guess there were too many people saying transwomen aren't women for the Times to feel in a legally acceptable place as a publisher in Scotland.

FFS

[2Rebecca]

Excellent article. The paragraphs at the end about people being denounced for conversations in their own homes brings home the chilling effects of this proposed law. It is really authoritarian and controlling and creepy. It seems bizarre that parties that claim to be in favour of individual freedom and who campaigned against identity cards support this more wide ranging assault on our liberty

[ArabellaScott]

Mr Yousaf confirmed that a campaign promoting the view that sex was immutable would be prosecuted if it was deemed deliberately provocative.

Mr Yousaf confirmed that a campaign promoting the view that sex was immutable would be prosecuted if it was deemed deliberately provocative.

Mr Yousaf confirmed that a campaign promoting the view that sex was immutable would be prosecuted if it was deemed deliberately provocative.

Is everybody listening?

[ArabellaScott]

'pro•voc•a•tive (prəˈvɒk ə tɪv)

adj.

1. tending or serving to provoke; stimulating, exciting, or vexing. '
   

Tending to provoke, serving to provoke.

Provoke what? A response of any kind? Words that are intended to provoke reading?

ITS ALL SO VAGUE. Vague law is terrible.

[Igneococcus]

Pity I missed the comments, there is pretty much no support for this bill among the Scottish Times readers.
I'm a biologist, I never thought believing a fundamental tenet of my discipline could potentially get me into jail.