Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Please help with this email to my CEO re gender/sex

47 replies

Bbub · 16/11/2020 11:31

Hi all, first feminism thread here. The pic shows 2 questions that have featured in a staff survey and I want to take it up with the CEO, please can you read it and make any suggestions?

Do my points make sense? Does my objection even make sense?!

Subject: the Equality Act (2010) and recent staff surveys

Dear [CEO]

Regarding the all staff survey I was recently invited to complete, questions 37 – 44 appear to be centred on the protected characteristics as defined in The Equality Act (2010)

The Equality Act identifies 9 protected characteristics:

Age
Disability
Gender reassignment
Marriage and civil partnership
Pregnancy and maternity
Religion or belief
Race
Sex
Sexual orientation

I am really concerned that the below questions fail to capture data on employees’ biological sex, as they put the importance on collecting responses on gender (which is not a protected characteristic).

[see image]

For example, if someone selects “non-binary”, “prefer not to say” or “other” in question 38, no matter what answer they select for question 39, we never get to record their biological sex, whether they want to disclose it or not. That precious data on the protected characteristics of [organisation] employees is lost.

Women are discriminated against in in the workplace, and in general, based on their sex (which cannot change) and not their gender (which people identify as a feeling and can change). This approach to questioning means that we will never understand the pay gap between men and women, for example. If a biological man identifies as the female gender and we don’t record their sex, that skews the data we have on women’s pay.

I understand the goal behind these questions is to be inclusive around gender identity, but the approach is flawed as a protected characteristic (sex) will not be recorded correctly as a result.

I look forward to hearing from you, and happy to discuss or provide further information.

Kind regards
Bbub

Please help with this email to my CEO re gender/sex
OP posts:
Bbub · 16/11/2020 11:32

Any comments on grammar etc also gratefully received. Thank you!

OP posts:
Dundundunnn · 16/11/2020 11:35

That's brilliant, I hope more people start calling employers out on this.
Also, 'female' isn't a gender identity.

Bessica1970 · 16/11/2020 11:37

I personally think you would be mad to send this!
Your boss will mentally at least (even if nothing is written down) chalk you up as someone who’s a bit of a jobsworth. Just my opinion and I fully expect to be flamed Hmm

SophocIestheFox · 16/11/2020 11:42

That makes sense and reads well, bbub. Good luck!

Bbub · 16/11/2020 11:46

Thanks for the feedback!

And I absolutely agree that female gender not a thing, but just wanted to mirror the language used in the survey and not look too critical. I have to tread carefully, my organisation are stonewall champs 🙄 and this CEO just sent a long email about the departure of a senior non binary person, email full of they/them 😴

OP posts:
NewlyGranny · 16/11/2020 12:24

For women to be erased from employment data, it is necessary only for timid people to do nothing.

No more gender pay gap because we don't have the data to determine it - sorry/not sorry.

Good for you, OP, the concerns you raise are perfectly valid and reasonable!

Nackajory · 16/11/2020 12:27

Very articulate OP. Please keep us updated with the response.

ThinEndOfTheWedge · 16/11/2020 12:27

Go for it. Well done.
The employer has a legal obligation re protected characteristics - so you are on solid ground.

We will all have to face this - or something similar with our employers at some point.

We all have to stand up about this. Every little action counts!

PortraitOf44 · 16/11/2020 12:28

I agree that I think you’re wasting your time here. Clearly your beliefs and outlook do not align with that of the company, why do you continue to work there? I think you and the company would be much better off if you found somewhere else to work!

Jintyfer · 16/11/2020 12:34

@PortraitOf44

I agree that I think you’re wasting your time here. Clearly your beliefs and outlook do not align with that of the company, why do you continue to work there? I think you and the company would be much better off if you found somewhere else to work!
So helpful. Not. 🙄

Good on you OP. I'm freelance but finding myself to be one of the few people I know with enough conviction to speak up about this stuff, in my personal and professional life. But If you have the guts and don't fear the potential consequences, go for it. You might just make a difference for the better. 👍

Thelnebriati · 16/11/2020 12:41

The fact there are posters on this thread who think companies should be allowed to break equality laws without being challenged is very sad.

I think I'd send the email to HR and CC in the CEO.

Bbub · 16/11/2020 12:45

I'm always happy to receive negative opinions as well, maybe I will be seen as a jobsworth but the CEO has talked recently about closing the pay gap and getting more women into senior positions (it's public sector but in a male dominated industry), so part of me thinks that he may actually see my point!

And no I won't be looking for another job because apart from this (which is probably happening in many organisations) I'm happy here, but thanks for your input!

OP posts:
littlbrowndog · 16/11/2020 12:47

It’s the law.

As said up above

Companies have to obey the law.

What if a company decide not to use the race part of the protected charectiristics

gardenbird48 · 16/11/2020 12:52

@PortraitOf44

I agree that I think you’re wasting your time here. Clearly your beliefs and outlook do not align with that of the company, why do you continue to work there? I think you and the company would be much better off if you found somewhere else to work!
you are making rather a large assumption there! Do you think it is acceptable for a company to deliberately avoid recording sex data?

OP, that sounds great and well done for standing up. I would consider spelling it out for them ie. 'Failure to record accurate data on Sex and other protected characteristics could leave the company in breach of their obligations under the Equality Act 2010'

good luck :¬)

this article is for Northern Ireland (rushing so no time to find the England equiv. but prob. v. similar)

www.nibusinessinfo.co.uk/content/monitoring-equality-and-diversity-employer-responsibilities

Bbub · 16/11/2020 12:57

It's a very woke-y gov agency and the CEO is always emailing us saying "let me know if you have any ideas" etc and talks a lot about equality for women, diversity and inclusion etc.

In fact I'm going to put a line in saying "I'm writing to you as you've been so vocal about xyz issues".

OP posts:
BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz · 16/11/2020 13:13

It's a very well put together email. Good luck.

Kit19 · 16/11/2020 13:18

Excellent email OP

Bottom line is that they are required to comply with the Equality Act & record all the protected characteristics properly whether they agree with them or not

NewlyGranny · 16/11/2020 13:56

If the CEO is all for equality, it's well worth your pointing out that the company will no longer be able to answer stakeholders' or inspectors' questions about equal opportunity, pay and promotion etc because it won't know the sex of its employees!

InvisibleDragon · 16/11/2020 14:18

One other minor point is that, depending on the cohort size and other questions asked, choosing the "non-binary" option may inadvertantly de-anonymise survey participants. Particularly if combined with info about other protected characteristics. I'm sure the company doesn't want to end up in the situation where a non-binary, BME staff member is treated unfairly because their boss worked out who made critical comments in the staff survey ...

(I mistakenly did this recently in a survey I designed: carefully included the NB option plus "prefer not to say" in the gender question, but then included a question about course choices which de-anonymised the small number of people who chose that option. Ended up barely discussing gender at all in the write up, to avoid revealing specific people's responses. )

Beamur · 16/11/2020 14:42

@NewlyGranny

If the CEO is all for equality, it's well worth your pointing out that the company will no longer be able to answer stakeholders' or inspectors' questions about equal opportunity, pay and promotion etc because it won't know the sex of its employees!
This. It's perfectly ok to ask other questions (provided you are GDPR compliant with data you keep) so they can gather information about gender issues if relevant. But unless you actually gather sex information you are not really going to be able to report accurately on pay gaps etc. If you do get into a conversation around this it might be useful to ask who they think will answer 'prefer not to say' as they may be unaware of how many women will choose this option when faced with a gender based question.
Onekidnoclue · 16/11/2020 14:46

Makes absolute sense and is a good email. The only issue I’d raise is the addressee. Are you sure your CEO is the best person to approach? What about the person or head of department the survey was sent from?

Abitofalark · 16/11/2020 15:33

Good action and thank you for doing it.
I agree with someone who commented that you have to spell it out - that the Equality Act imposes a requirement etc.
And I wouldn't use the sentence as proposed about being very vocal about it which may be taken as throwing something back at someone and being challenging. Would you consider rewording that one, say, more along the lines of I know you are keen to promote... or keenly interested in...?

EyesOpening · 16/11/2020 15:38

Does it say on the survey for what purpose they are asking for this information?

EyesOpening · 16/11/2020 15:45

@PortraitOf44

I agree that I think you’re wasting your time here. Clearly your beliefs and outlook do not align with that of the company, why do you continue to work there? I think you and the company would be much better off if you found somewhere else to work!
How do you ascertain what the company’s beliefs and/or outlook are, from those two questions?
Quaagars · 16/11/2020 15:52

For women to be erased from employment data, it is necessary only for timid people to do nothing

The screenshot says 1) which of these best describes your gender identity and 2) is it the same as you were assigned at birth

So if I was to put female, and yes it is to the questions, how is it erasing me? I'd clearly be putting myself down on there as a woman, one who was "assigned woman at birth" too (for want of a better phrase)

Swipe left for the next trending thread