Women who have left a religion, why

[IrishCawfee]

And how has it changed your life?

Thank you.

And sorry, I didn't really approach the question properly. I don't think being a woman much influenced my decision to leave the Catholic church, however, aspects of how women are viewed within the church sure played a part. When I see how profoundly damaged my mother is (84!) by her years spent inside a convent school in 1940s/50s Ireland, it is hard for me to look at any Sister with kindness. I have to dig very deep for that one and really tap into that loving place to try and not resent Catholic nuns/sisters. Wrong to resent, I know. And I work hard at this. But my mother was so deeply abused and taught self-loathing by women who should have been carrying the torch for the teachings of Jesus Christ and upholding the power of his mother Mary. They could have been such vessels of good. They were not. And the lifetime damage reflected in my mother is a tragedy to observe.

@Malahaha

^ Sorry, need to amplify a little: "When you realise that that so-called "higher power" is not at all distant, but is right here, within us every moment; and that we have access to it, that it is the very foundation of who we are etc etc

Lecturing us wont make us change our minds. I feel so happy and released by letting go of all this stuff. It gives me joy and has released me to love people properly in my life without all the outpourings of the condemnation that flows through the Bible trying to make one feel guilty about everything . All this higher power stuff is an excuse for lots of things - I am happy if it helps you but dont lecture us so patronisingly about it. Hardly anyone believes it in the UK anymore. Only 1% of 18 to 24 year olds have any interest in Christianity. It's adherents are mainly 50 and over. It is dying in the UK. Unfortunately Islam will soon overtake it but hopefully the same will happen to it as young people get educated and realise that there is a much more loving freer world available to them without any religion

I'm sorry if you felt I was lecturing or patronising.

I was not referring to Christianity at all. There are a lot of assumptions thrown the way of "believers", such as the straw-man of a skyfairy and a higher power up in the sky.

I was simply pointing out that for many of us it is something we seek within us, not somewhere in heaven. Am I not allowed to say that?

For all those who have left official Christianity, there are just as many seeking different avenues of spirituality. They just don't speak of it very much. Many are young.

Also I am not here to change anyone's mind -- I know it's not possible! I just wanted to present another perspective to the higher-power-in-heaven-who-is useless conventional one.

That's because you continue to equate "higher power" with a metaphorical man in the sky, distant from us, unrelated to us, something "out there".
When you realise that that so-called "higher power" is not at all distant, but is right here, every moment; and that we have access to it, and it can transform our lives and ourselves from the ground up, that it's a constant source of strength, balance, love, peace, happiness if only we knew how to activate it -- it's a different story.

Isn't equating a higher power as something around and within us just as arbitrary as equating a higher power as something out there?

I wonder if religious people who believe in the higher power that's close by find they have a better source of strength, balance, love, peace, happiness compared to religious people who believe in a more distant higher power. That would be an interesting study, I think.

I don't know how robust the studies and findings are, but spotted this interesting article.

www.livescience.com/religious-states-wider-gender-pay-gap.html

Then again, there's also this stupid, narcissistic article 🙄🙄
www.livescience.com/nonbinary-astronomy-gender-equity.html

Isn't equating a higher power as something around and within us just as arbitrary as equating a higher power as something out there?

No.
But I really don't want to go into "why not" as I'll be once again accused of lecturing and patronising others!
It's OK though to be told you worship an invisible friend in the sky.

I stopped being a Christian because of the homophobia, misogyny, repressive attitudes to sex and masturbation and because there were a lot of holier than thou false nice people in the church. I never really felt comfortable there.

I do think Jesus’ teachings were valid and groundbreaking for his time and the church doesn’t really follow them at all. But even Jesus who broke the mould could’ve seen that having women amongst his disciples would have been a wise idea.
When you think about it making up a religion and putting a man as the creator and omniscient, unchallengeable authority of it, a man as his mouthpiece as prophesied by men and men as his disciples and founders of the church, with the only woman in the picture’s attribute being that she’s a virgin...makes you realise it’s somewhat one sided...🤔
Women still cannot be priests in the Catholic Church ffs, it’s archaic and stilted and the love for all of which Jesus spoke is eclipsed by a load of dogma.

Tower of Babel, isn't it? Now that's a curse if ever there was one.

No.
But I really don't want to go into "why not" as I'll be once again accused of lecturing and patronising others!
It's OK though to be told you worship an invisible friend in the sky.

Fair enough. Apologies if my phrases caused offense. I do take a rather dim view of religion and religious beliefs, but I understand it does mean a lot to many people and is a source of strength and happiness. It's never something I can really relate to.

The thread was about women who left religion and their experiences, but seemed to have a sudden influx of posters at the start talking about how fabulous religion or religious beliefs are, which does come across as quite patronising given the topic.
Religion has affected some of us very deeply and continues to negatively affect women around the world. If religion were a benign, individualistic thing I'd imagine more people would feel comfortable with it.

I wasn't offended. It would take a lot to offend me.
My only argument in this is not to throw out the baby with the bathwater; to add a bit of intelligent nuance to the whole thing. "Religion" is not just one fixed thing.

"Religion" is not just one fixed thing.

It's become a bit of an umbrella term. The militant atheists I've known bundle specific organised religions and any sort of spirituality together and denigrate the whole concept. Except, well, it's not just one concept, is it?

It all just got filed under "immaterialist waffle," where "immaterial" loosely translated to "imaginary lying bollocks".

But an organised religion isn't immaterial. Church buildings are materially real, and so are the people in the priest role who are given the authority to interpret the literature.

To me that's a crucial difference - in an organised religion, someone else is the final arbiter of meaningful interpretation of the religious texts.

In my first post I differentiated between "horizontal" and "vertical" religion, and hoped for a more differentiated topic.
If "religion" is all just bundled together as a single evil entity and we had one poster after another denouncing the harm some religions have perpetuated, and still do, I'd agree, and they'd all have been similar: "I left because," and we could all agree.
But as always, the straw-men win!

It all just got filed under "immaterialist waffle," where "immaterial" loosely translated to "imaginary lying bollocks".

I think the go-to term these days is "spiritual woo-woo".

A phrase I do enjoy!

It took me a long time to fully grasp that the reader presumes, on the basis of word-choices, the meaning of the text. In this case the text being our posts here; and the author is very much not dead.

Which means if you could talk about your understanding of the concept of a higher power in materialist terms, it would be more widely understood - but it would lose meaning for you because you're not actually referring to the material.

I got what you meant, Mala, cos "higher power" is a meaningful concept to me. But to the militant atheists I was raised by, "higher power" is merely a code for this or that fictional character. Took me years of studying the philosophy of religion to spot that.

I certainly equate the word religion with organised religion and distinct from anyone’s own beliefs made entirely by themselves. I think most people do, for example when completing a census there isn’t a box that says self-determined religion.
I do believe in the human spiritual power (not sure how to phrase it) but would avoid using the word religious because of the negative connotations it has for me.

That's a lovely way of putting it - if ever I should happen to be asked what my religion is, I shall answer "self-determined".

Trouble is, to outsiders there's little relevant difference between the actual faith-having and the going through the motions. Same simple label gets applied to both. The census doesn't ask for faith, it just wants to know which bricks-and-mortar building you go to.

I did flirt with queer theory as a religion in my youth, but tbh it just reminded me of my dad too much.

I was raised Catholic. Prayed three times a day went to church every week plus whenever school went too.
I actually loved the fundamental ethos that one should look out for each other. It was all the rest of the horror shit show that came with it, the nasty abusive priests and nuns that came to light that made me think, how can I support this. Every time I give money to them I'm supporting an organisation that is not right.
Saying that they did do a lot of good for quite a few people I knew.

I tried to move over to CofE but then the reverend sent a brochure through my door with a rather long story about how women are there to support men and a story on how a wife could have improved her service to god by ensuring her family were well fed and talked of how the dh spent long hard day at work and she wasn't getting dinner ready on time for when he walked in, at this point I decided I'd be better off just living life neutrally being good to others and helping causes I thought were actually going to benefit from my time. That was in 2018. I was pretty annoyed tbh,

As others have said, Christianity in the original form did not write off women in such ways but the church does and the church is too powerful to ignore as integral to being a Christian imo.

The OP hasn't come back. Are they a journalist? This seemed to be a fishing expedition question but some interesting answers

You can be a Christian and still go a different way to the old narrowly prescribed doctrines. Even Catholic priests are doing this these days. I know a couple; at least two.

Anyone here seen the Netflix film, The Two Popes?
There's a Jesuit Priest in that film, the Hungarian Franz Jalics -- who had been captured by an Argentinian death squad, abducted, tortured, and held captive for five months.

I know him; haven't met him recently and I don't even know if he is still alive, but I knew him quite well in the 80's and early 90's, and in fact was his neighbour in India for a while. He went to India regularly to learn about Vedanta and the practice of Vedantic meditation, as I did.

He's a lovely, gentle man and recognised that there's a truth running through all religions, that does not contradict them, but unites them. He went on to lead Christian retreats in Germany based on what he learned in India. He also wrote books on spirituality and practical prayer; they are on Amazon, and all influenced by his experience in India.

There are several such attempts all over the world for people to come together to find such a unifying path and a deeper understanding. (I struggle to put into words matters that can't be put into words, so that they don't evoke ire or accusations of being patronising, so pardon the clumsy wording.)

I call this, too, "leaving religion"; it's leaving the boring and empty shell of organised religion behind. I know of many lay Catholics who do the same. Christianity today is not what it used to be; Christians I know are far more open. It's about finding the golden thread that is at the core of all religions; the "vertical" path. It's no more "this is the only way".

I've noticed in recent years that floods of Russians, raised atheist, are very enthusiastic spiritual seekers!

it's a matter of learning to separate the wheat from the chaff, if you are so inclined. I guess you must first experience an internal yearning, a hunger, to go this route, though.

I used to be very religious - Mormon/LDS faith.

It's a long story my leaving religion, I suppose the first stumbling block was a male in leadership didn't like me pointing out he lied to me and about me. Then all hell broke lose.

I realised soon after that all religion was just a man-made concept. It's been an enlightening journey for me leaving, freeing from guilt and fear. I am absolutely shocked at my last beliefs and actions. I was so indoctrinated I would have done anything for the religion. So I guess I'm thankful for short little men with massive egos who don't like being told by women when they did something wrong.

(It's not quite how it sounds. He basically said he asked me to do something, I said he asked me to do something else. This affected region classes I taught. He told others I was lying and wrong and then I proved (with witnesses) that he did say what I said he did. It was such a small thing really. His reaction was not though).

Believing in "sky fairies" seems like passing responsibility on to an external party. I'm quite happy to give them all a pass and try and be a decent human being. x

I actually turned away from the Christian faith when things got rough for me. I kept praying for help and feeling like no one was listening or cared. It occurred to me I had no actual evidence that he was there, so maybe he wasn't.

I was 14 and had only known Christians up to this point, because of the very sheltered upbringing I had. I never heard non-Christian viewpoints before, but I still felt like I needed reassurance directly from God that he existed, and I wasn't getting that.
I couldn't get rid of my doubts, no matter how hard I tried. I think some people's brains are wired so they aren't capable of being religious.

Leaving my religion was good because I had a tendency to get into abusive relationships, and if I'd believed what I was taught my whole life, I would have been required to stay with my abusive husband, and submit to his orders, for the rest of my life. That happened to my sister, who is Christian, and was married to a horrible man for 25 years, allowing him to control her the whole time. Sickening. She had a serious eating disorder for years and could barely function.

But it's also been isolating because I live in the US, which is somewhat hostile to atheists, and there is no real push to give non-religious people the community that churches bring its members.

@MishyJDI

Believing in "sky fairies" seems like passing responsibility on to an external party. I'm quite happy to give them all a pass and try and be a decent human being. x

It's a pity that (most) atheists never seem able to move beyond the sky-fairy cliché/strawman. It means that a nuanced discussion is never possible.

But it's also been isolating because I live in the US, which is somewhat hostile to atheists, and there is no real push to give non-religious people the community that churches bring its members.

I've heard it can be difficult being an atheist at times in the US, unless you're in a super liberal area.
Feeling part of a community is important to many people. I wish there was a way to foster something like that. It does seem that even in 'atheist' spaces a lot of domineering men take over, which isn't helpful for women looking for support and friendship.

I have to agree, Mala.

The externality of the "higher power" is an assumption based on stories. Which are predominantly written and interpreted by men. I'm sure many people of many religions believe there's an entirely external entity; that doesn't mean all do.

It really does remind me of my dad! All words and meanings filtered through the lens of the perceived higher power he rails against. It's done him no favours in the long run.