NCT and surrogacy - two men tell us about the birth they wanted

[OhHolyJesus]

The National Childbirth Trust, the place that is often your first introduction to a group where you make friends with other mothers-to-be, the place that tells you about bonding with your baby in the womb, here tells us how two men used a woman's body and how it was for them.

It's thankfully brief, and their 'special friend' gets a mention as their 'surrogate' but sadly not as the 'surrogate mother'.

www.nct.org.uk/labour-birth/dads-and-partners/your-experiences-having-baby-through-surrogacy

@Stripesnomore

To be fair to them, it is mostly the way it has been edited. They probably never said ‘getting the birth we wanted’ - it has just been put in as a subheading.

The bit about them attending antenatal classes is really confusing, as it is unclear if they attended them without the surrogate. If they did that really is full on Handmaid’s tale - the bit where the infertile wives lie on the floor pretending to be giving birth while the real mother is hidden away upstairs birthing in secret.

It would be unusual for the surrogate to attend. They are not usually first time mothers....thankfully.

The parents using a surrogate might be interested in birth so they know what to expect during the birth but they might not be interested and might skip those parts.

The birth plan is the plan of the person giving birth. It is up to her to decide who she wants in theatre with her, who she wants to do skin to skin, who the baby goes to.

Other people can choose to participate or not, but it is the mother’s birth plan.

Are these two men not entitled to be parents? Can they not make other parents friends? Can they not be interested in the birth and safety of the child that they will raise?

They can do all that. Not one post has suggested otherwise. My personal view is that no-one has the right to use someone else’s body to gain something for themselves. Women’s bodies should not be for hire and babies should not be bought and sold. If that impacts on the parenting desires of two gay men, so be it.

It’s not homophobic to state that a labouring mother should be at the absolute centre of her birth experience.

It is also not homophobic to state that a woman is the legal and moral mother of the child she brings into the world.

My issue is more with the arrogant, entitled statements they make in the article than their attendance at ante-natal classes.

'Part of our training is about being non-judgemental.'

Mine missed that memo!

Interested to see that two men attending ante natal classes without the woman who is actually giving birth is super duper and to say hold on is homophobic.

One does wonder if women need to attend at all? The men can cover everything off.

All kinds of people might be interested in what goes on during a birth, but that antenatal classes should be for the woman giving birth and whoever is supporting her.

If ante natal classes with the NCT aren't mainly about the woman giving birth then they need to be renamed TBH.

@Stripesnomore

The birth plan is the plan of the person giving birth. It is up to her to decide who she wants in theatre with her, who she wants to do skin to skin, who the baby goes to.

Other people can choose to participate or not, but it is the mother’s birth plan.

Agreed but she might not care which is why it could be done together. Many will not want to do skin to skin as they see that as when they hand the baby over. There would be no point thinking that someone was going to come into theatre with you only to find out they won't do it at the time.

@NiceGerbil

If ante natal classes with the NCT aren't mainly about the woman giving birth then they need to be renamed TBH.

Renamed to what? That doesn't make sense. Antenatal means before birth....that's all. NCT doesn't mean anything as discussed.

@Stripesnomore

All kinds of people might be interested in what goes on during a birth, but that antenatal classes should be for the woman giving birth and whoever is supporting her.

Anyone can't go. Only pregnant women, their supporters and those having a baby by surrogacy. They could lie of course but that would be pathologically odd.

Most of a birth plan has nothing to do with anyone other than the birthing mother though.

If someone doesn’t want to support you during all the possibilities of childbirth, that can be sorted out before you make the plan.

But why are surrogate parents allowed to go without the mother? If they are not there supporting the mother, and so are not the person supporting the mother during the birth, why do they need to be in a group with a bunch of pregnant women?

I don’t see how this is different to a father from a couple who had split up going to antenatal classes alone, even though he’s not supporting the woman at the actual birth.

@littlebillie

Under his eye

^ This

It’s terrifying. Womens’ bodies reduced to commodities.

@Stripesnomore

Most of a birth plan has nothing to do with anyone other than the birthing mother though.

If someone doesn’t want to support you during all the possibilities of childbirth, that can be sorted out before you make the plan.

In my opinion birth plans are mainly a waste of time. I think there are far more important things to worry about if anyone is giving birth these days. For that matter far more useful ways that the NCT could be making itself useful. So much trauma occuring from birth which has got worse since Covid. However campaigns cost money and makes you unpopular which are things the NCT cannot afford.

Well indeed, antenatal means before birth, but anyone apart from an arch misogynist would assume that birth must involve the experience of a woman and baby, as those are the only two people it is actually happening to.

So the idea now is that ante natal is not a term that is taken to be to do with the pregnant woman?

Just anyone who knows her is related to her or anything?

Ok. That's ok.

Ante natal, peri natal, post natal. All words that should be used in their true meanings which somehow doesn't have a pregnant woman at the centre of them.

Interesting.

Not sure how I feel about that tbh.

Until now those words have generally been applied to the woman eg peri natal anxiety. I know that men have been saying they get this stuff too and I have been saying choose a different word.

But if those words never had the pregnant woman as the focus then ok.

We'll need to rename some stuff. But that seems to be the way forward.

Gestational foetus expeller psychosis has a good thing to it I think.

I didn’t find my birth plan a waste of time at all. It allowed me to inform my HCP of my preferences for medical treatment. This is something I think is important as a patient.

@Stripesnomore

But why are surrogate parents allowed to go without the mother? If they are not there supporting the mother, and so are not the person supporting the mother during the birth, why do they need to be in a group with a bunch of pregnant women?

I don’t see how this is different to a father from a couple who had split up going to antenatal classes alone, even though he’s not supporting the woman at the actual birth.

I expect the NCT would say why not?

Because the whole sodding thing is supposed to be about helping first time mothers!

If that's not the point of it then I'm not sure what to say.

Have the NCT not met any pregnant women?

Why not?

Because my preganancy and birth plans are not some kind of spectator sport which someone who isn’t actually involved in a birth can sit in on.

Well let's concentrate scare funds on the women who actually need it then.

Two men at an NCTclass ? Unnecessary, in these straitened times.

@Stripesnomore

Well indeed, antenatal means before birth, but anyone apart from an arch misogynist would assume that birth must involve the experience of a woman and baby, as those are the only two people it is actually happening to.

I wish birth was always about the experience of birthing women and their babies. In my experience it's most often about the functioning of the maternity unit and avoiding litigation.

@7Days

Well let's concentrate scare funds on the women who actually need it then.

Two men at an NCTclass ? Unnecessary, in these straitened times.

But they pay.

@NiceGerbil

Because the whole sodding thing is supposed to be about helping first time mothers!

If that's not the point of it then I'm not sure what to say.

Its not. Its about both parents.

At least maternity units require an actual pregnant woman as a patient, which is a greater focus on mothers than the NCT has apparently.