Of course Trump nearly winning was the fault of females....

[risefromyourgrave]

m.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/us-election-trump-biden_uk_5fa53425c5b64c88d3ff804b?ncid=APPLENEWS00001

I saw this opinion piece this morning and once again, surprise surprise, women are to blame.

According to exit polls 55% of white women voted for Trump. And while I am also aghast that anyone would vote for a misogynistic, racist narcissist, I am a bit pissed off that it’s women that get called out for voting for him and men get a pass.

Also, according to the exit polls, 12% of black people, 32% of Hispanic/Latinx people and 28% of the LGBT community voted for Trump - surely they were also turkeys voting for Christmas?

Nothing is said about the fact that 49% of men voted for Trump versus 48% for Biden, whereas more women voted for Biden than Trump (56% to 43%).

But no, it’s all the females fault....

But there's a reason that a black man was elected president far before a woman of any colour even made it to vice president.

Yup. And (de jure) black men got the vote first.

Misogyny is the oldest prejudice.

And how many white men voted for trump? I saw a tweet with a picture of voting breakdown for some state (I forget which) saying "once again a majority of white women are voting for trump" which had something like 54% of white women voting for him, and immediately above it in the same picture but completely ignored by the tweeter was a stat saying that around 58% of white men had voted for him. But he had ignored the higher % of white men voting trump and gone straight to shitting on white women. Its not going to be a popular things to say but I'm fucking sick of (mostly) black men acting like their shit doesn't smell because they experience racism. And people in general pushing the narrative that white women aren't oppressed, and any disadvantage we face is cancelled out by our white privaledge, whilst black men are said to not experience male privaledge and any they do have is cancelled out by the racial oppression they face. But there's a reason that a black man was elected president far before a woman of any colour even made it to vice president. Black men expect white women to bend over backwards to be antiracist but I have yet to see significant numbers of them do the same to challenge their own misogyny. How many white women do you know who have read those bloody "white fragility"/"why I'm no longer speaking to white people about race" books vs how many black men you know who are out there reading books on feminism? How many white mothers do you know who are trying their hardest to find books for their children that discuss racism and represent black characters vs how many black fathers are out there challenging their children on every day sexism? For every white woman out there who is failing to own her part in perpetuating white supremacism there's a black man out there failing to own his part in perpetuating male supremacism. I was all over intersectionality when I first learnt about it, but I see now that it's just become another way to put women at the bottom of the pile and blame us for everything. And as usual main stream feminism is to craven and desperate for male approval to say a word about it.

Despite my temptation to offer a mansplanation on the use of the paragraph, I mostly agree with this post.

From fivethirtyeight.com/features/what-if-only-men-voted-only-women-only-nonwhite-voters/

I suppose ever since the tales of the Garden of Eden and Pandora everything’s always been our fault.

@MorrisZapp

What a vile rant. And laughably illogical too. Presumably the white women in the social justice t-shirts and waving BLM signs were in the half of the population who didn't vote trump.

Trying to turn a wonderful, world changing step towards unity and racial equality into 'fuck you Karen' is Trumpism at it's finest.

It's no more 'vile' than any other opinion piece in the media.

I'd like to know why so many women voted for Trump when he is clearly a misogynist. Wouldn't you?

What does 'Fuck you Karen' mean?

I'd like to know why so many women voted for Trump when he is clearly a misogynist. Wouldn't you?

It always puzzles me when people are for something which is clearly against their best interests. Like how my lesbian friend is a Catholic. Or why, when you see these anti abortion protests on TV, there are a lot of very angry, vocal women there.
People are strange.

It always puzzles me when people are for something which is clearly against their best interests

What you mean is it puzzles you when people are for something which you consider is clearly against their best interests.

In the case of Trump the Floridian Latino voters chose him over Biden because of their fear of anything resembling socialism. They might be utterly wrong in seeing Biden as socialist but that was the decisive factor.

What you mean is it puzzles you when people are for something which you consider is clearly against their best interests.

Well yes, it is in my opinion. But the anti women things Trump has said and done are clear. Yet millions of women not only vote for him, but attend the rallies, wear the caps, shout and scream at people in the street for him, etc.

Not to mention those women who wore the "you can grab me by the pussy" t shirts.

Conveniently the comments are closed on that article so we can't call her out on it

It's far too simplistic to take one take one facet of a person's personality and equate that to one facet of a politicians policy.

Most people dont go around by being a Woman, or Black, or a Lesbian.
Often they're Workers, or Patients, or Mums, or grappling with the endless void, or picking litter in the park, or worrying about what's best for their ailing parents, or all of the above on any given day.

That's the problem with Wokeness, simplistic and reductive and then berates you if you're not.

It's far too simplistic to take one take one facet of a person's personality and equate that to one facet of a politicians policy

Absolutely. One of the reasons Trump won first time round, as we all know, was working class people felt the Democrats had nothing to say to them. It was economics, not feminist credentials they were looking for.

Can't say I'm scratching my head too much about why women vote for a misogynist. Women have always voted for misogynists, mostly because women, like men, vote on issues such the economy etc.

There was a black female trump voter on the radio last week, she said Trump is an unpleasant personality but at least he doesn't want black babies to be killed, ie be aborted. Huge numbers of women are socially conservative, and see a vote for the Democrats as a vote against their moral or religious values, regardless of the personality of the figurehead on their own side.

By all means, we need to look at why people vote the way they do. But I don't like the idea of holding women more accountable than men. It feels like blame. Ultimately in a free election women can vote with their own conscience, even when their choice appals us.

And 'fuck off Karen' is a way of blaming women (often white women) for the actions of men. The article doesn't use this phrase but as they, it's a dogwhistle.

I now split the republican voters into two separate groups

A minority of trump supporters and the majority group of republicans some of who may well hold their nose to vote for trump or see him, for all his (many many many many...) faults, as better than the alternative there are probably more ‘ors’ but i can’t think of any

My dad has voted tory for ever and will always vote tory, i cant think of anyone i could put as leader of the conservatives who he wouldnt vote for!

And what morris just said

The first problem is these people can't see past these id politics categories well enough to understand that people have all kinds of personal interests and beliefs about the world that aren't about their racial, sexual, or sex category. In some cases they don't even care much at all about those categories.

The second problem, however, is there are a lot of people who are convinced that Trump is a sort of demon, and that nothing his platform said, and nothing his polices (or even lack thereof) accomplished, could ever be better for anyone than any policy by even the worst democrat president. Unless you happen to be served by racism and fascism.

From their perspective it's actually logically and materially impossible that anyone could be better served by something Trump did. Which is clearly a superstitious perspective.

I have no idea what most Trump supporters - whether male or female - think because I can't remember ever hearing from them. I'm not talking about the supporters who go to rallies and make all the noise, I mean the ordinary, quiet supporters, who I assume form the majority, the ones who say nothing when they're called stupid and racist, keep their heads down and then give the world the finger in the polling booth.

In four years, the only time I can remember anyone in the mainstream media seriously try and get under their skin was in the Ed Balls documentary, which played it for laughs but at least tried to actually engage. Admittedly this was in the UK but I don't get the impression it was much different in the USA. The lack of curiosity astounds me.

Exit polls are a bunch of nonsense anyway. It is so flawed that it cannot give any certain % of who voted for who.
It’s just posting people with clipboards outside voting places that then have to stop and question a not random sample of people coming out from voting. So you have many biases at play that skew results

• time of day the exit polls were done
• State, city and neighbourhood chosen for voting place exit polls
• the people willing and with time to stop and do a survey after voting
• the biases of the interviewers in which people they approach to ask
• the assumption that the people interviewed will tell the truth

The Huffing Paint is an awful rag.

My dad has voted tory for ever and will always vote tory, i cant think of anyone i could put as leader of the conservatives who he wouldnt vote for!

That's an interesting comment. I don't think many (any ?) Conservatives would change their vote away from Conservative just because of who the leader was yet obviously many Labour voters did, including me. Conversely I'm sure Blair as an individual turned voters in his favour.

@PlanDeRaccordement

Exit polls are a bunch of nonsense anyway. It is so flawed that it cannot give any certain % of who voted for who. It’s just posting people with clipboards outside voting places that then have to stop and question a not random sample of people coming out from voting. So you have many biases at play that skew results

• time of day the exit polls were done
• State, city and neighbourhood chosen for voting place exit polls
• the people willing and with time to stop and do a survey after voting
• the biases of the interviewers in which people they approach to ask
• the assumption that the people interviewed will tell the truth

Good point, mate.

@DidoLamenting

My dad has voted tory for ever and will always vote tory, i cant think of anyone i could put as leader of the conservatives who he wouldnt vote for!

That's an interesting comment. I don't think many (any ?) Conservatives would change their vote away from Conservative just because of who the leader was yet obviously many Labour voters did, including me. Conversely I'm sure Blair as an individual turned voters in his favour.

I think there are probably some people that many people would think twice about voting for in all parties. But my impression is that voters who see themselves as progressive, and voters who see themselves as something else, don't always have the same kinds of demands of the party leader.

Maybe they see the role differently?

It's also quite different I suspect if you don't really like any of the leaders.
Local candidates are also a factor. I wonder if there are different feelings about the importance of, or different typical levels of engagement with, local representatives, among different groups? That's not really a factor with the American president of course.

@RufustheSniggeringReindeer I would have said the same of my dear old mum, but then she blindsided us all by voting for Frank Field’s Social Justice Party in the last election. Fed up with the incompetence of BoJo et al, apparently. So there’s hope yet!

The Huff Post article is a strange one. There’s almost zero chance that the actual people she’s talking about will be reading such a liberal publication, so all it will achieve is to make liberal white woman feel guilty by association. Maybe that’s the point? Blaming people for how their neighbours vote is pretty fucking outrageous.

there is a similar piece of idiocy here medium.com/an-injustice/dear-white-women-who-voted-for-trump-75b5ad7742c7

This is from "An Injustice!

A new intersectional publication, geared towards voices, values, and identities!
"

She says "White women, we need to do better. We are part of the problem of white supremacy and oppression. We need to put people of color firmly at the front of our minds and hearts and everlasting privilege and listen and learn to be true allies. "

as if there is any 'we' in 'part of the problem'.

The white women who voted for Trump believe that SHE is the problem. They may be anti-abortion, some will be racist, but it's unlikely that any of them was confused about what Donald Trump represents and accidentally voted for him while secretly yearning for a campfire Kumbaya singalong and social justice for all. No, they voted for Trump because he was the best choice according to their values, which obviously are not those of 'Injustice magazine'.

The biggest common with all these claims is that the idiots shouting about them have no idea if they are true or not. Is there a statistically significant difference between 2020 and 2016?

And this year the exit poll would have been absolute TRASH and only really STUPID people would use them, because we know that Trump ranted like an idiot about mail-in votes being trash for MONTHS, which resulted in election-day voting being hugely Republican-biased, while mail-in ballots had a large Democrat surplus, so they had to make a bunch of adjustments

The claim about white women is most likely false and these people are fucking stupid.

www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/11/10/dont-trust-exit-polls-this-explains-why/

"This year the NEP suggests that just 65 percent of voters were White and 34 percent were White without a four-year college degree. These estimates are dramatically smaller than what other research has found during prior elections. For example, the States of Change project — a series of reports that I co-authored with Ruy Teixeira and Bill Frey — found that 74 percent of voters were White in 2016, and 44 percent were White non-college."

IOW, because we know that white people are most likely to vote Republican, and other races less likely, it follows if you falsely claim that the proportion of the electorate voting that is white is around 14% smaller than it actually is, then you will tend to overstate the extent to which all groups voted Trump, relative to the national total.

The only thing to be true so far is Trump has 47.5% to Biden's 50.8% (this will widen as I understand it as the votes continue to get counted), and to arrive at these numbers you have to essentially adjust raw numbers in accordance with your estimate of voter turn out by group, and the size of that group in the electorate.

A simple example is if you said

64% white non-Hispanic @ 55% Trump from raw data
36% not @ 30% Trump

that comes to 46%. So you adjust that up a little and you claim '56.5% of white voters voted Trump and 31.5% of non-white' to reach 47.5%
But if you use 74% vs 26% for the white/non-white voting electorate, then you end up saying that only 54% voted Trump, which is a full 2.5% lower.

Thanks for the Washington Post link, StandWitch. Really interesting.

I have the impression that few political journalists, and even fewer opinion writers, have a really firm background in mathematics and statistics. This is unfortunate because they have the power, for good or ill, to construct the narratives people use to understand our societies and other individuals in them.