Helen Lewis - Ubisoft

[MondayYogurt]

Gaming related, therefore naturally leaning towards anti-women (Gamergaters are misogynists and generally TRAs in my experience - any opportunity to subjugate women is gleefully enjoyed).

Yet another twitter led cancellation: games company Ubisoft (home of apparently endemic sexual harassment www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-07-21/ubisoft-sexual-misconduct-scandal-harassment-sexism-and-abuse ) has removed Helen Lewis from some podcasts because of her previously expressed feminist views.

Next cancellation target is Ian Dunt, for defending her right to free speech.

Influential website Kotaku (trans editor Riley Macleod) is as ever at the heart of these storms.

Gaming baseline hates women, particularly any stepping out of line. They then become 'Nazis', 'fascists', and are allowed to be publicly destroyed.
The only acceptable women are camgirls, sexy cosplayers, handmaidens and transwomen.

Ian Dunt notably hasn't issued a grovelling retraction.

I guess years in the Brexit trenches means he's used to vitriolic pile-ons. He's also ideologically very committed to free speech and open debate.

Nick Cohen has written in the Spectator about this

www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-cowardice-of-an-anti-fascist-video-game-company

@InvisibleDragon

Ian Dunt notably hasn't issued a grovelling retraction.

I guess years in the Brexit trenches means he's used to vitriolic pile-ons. He's also ideologically very committed to free speech and open debate.

It's not Ian Dunt's first rodeo with TRAs.

When I was on twitter, I had an excellent thread bookmarked from a Geman Holocaust historian, who said he had only seen the claims that trans people were among the first to be targeted by the nazis coming from Americans. In fact he wiped the floor with an American 'Queer Historian', as I recall. Wish I could remember his @

Helen's bit in the game was a "podcast" on a radio talking about fascism, so that'll be why TRAs are coming out with all this hyperbolic crap about how actually, she's the fascist.

I think the idea of women as a class having associated rights, and especially if they resist their erosion, is claimed by some as transphobic.

If you look at John Stuart Mill and how he regards when someone adversely impacts on someone else's rights that is where their actions should stop as the other person has rights too and have they have a right not to be adversely impinged upon. The 'self-regarding' actions and 'other-regarding' actions. Self regarding actions are those is which only involves or impacts on yourself. Whether that is adverse or otherwise is your own business. When it is adversely impacts on someone else, then it ceases to be just be your own business and you are not in the sphere of your rights any longer. You have stepped over a line into someone else's space.

Excellent article from Nick Cohen, but what is it with the people who comment btl on Spectator articles? Why are they all so stupid? They seem to think that these are all "left on left" arguments or that people like Lewis and Cohen have brought it upon themselves - in what way, it's not specified.

@RoyalCorgi

Excellent article from Nick Cohen, but what is it with the people who comment btl on Spectator articles? Why are they all so stupid? They seem to think that these are all "left on left" arguments or that people like Lewis and Cohen have brought it upon themselves - in what way, it's not specified.

Yes I don't get it. Free speech and not being sacked for having the "wrong opinion" is something that concerns everyone.

The comments never load for me which is probably for the best!

You'd think the Spectator commentators would know what happened between the Co-op and Andrew Neil!

She was clearly talking about "cis" men posing a danger to both trans and natal women, if self-id is widespread. It says a lot that someone could interpret her remarks as meaning that it's not possible to change gender just because you say you have. She wasn't saying that but you can see why they'd think she did because it's all a house of bloody cards. If you can't trust everyone's self id then the whole edifice comes down.

Way to paint gamers so negatively there. Being invested in video games, their characters, plot etc. Is no different than the people who religiously watch and get heavily invested in Soaps.

Feminists are holocaust deniers? Didn't see that one coming..

Yeah sure. Here's a Not All Gamers card for you.
Now I'm going to need some examples of soap watchers (and what's the collective noun of them?) obsessively dressing up as their fav characters, claiming their faves would punch other groups, writing zoophile slashfic about them, threatening other people with cancellation, getting newsreaders fired etc.
Gaming is fine. Everyone needs a hobby. But the link between hardcore gamers and misogyny is too obvious to ignore.

I’ve been a gamer my whole life, and it’s always had a strong thread of misogyny running through. This is because I think of the male-dominated nature of the hobby. It’s gotten better though as more women have grown up playing games.

Back in gamergater times the big issue for male gamers was getting violently angry (death threats etc) if anyone made a game not specifically targeted only to them, OR if they criticized a game they liked (this part is still a big issue). They still do seem to have this rage - and it’s still being targeted at women - but now it’s generally reserved for the “wrong” kind of woman.

Actually now that I think, that’s the same as before isn’t it? If you were “one of the guys” and liked everything they liked and kept your head down, and made sure not to be too feminine they’d leave you be.

BTW Helen is one of the best things about The Atlantic. Actual journalism still exists.

Yeah sure. Here's a Not All Gamers card for you.

When I see one of those depressingly horrific misogynistic pile-ons against a gender critical woman on twitter the correlation of anime avatar and "gamer" in the bio is unmissable.

I used to play an interactive online game in the nineties, and in retrospect the amount of sexual harassment against the much smaller number of female players was shocking. But it was just accepted at the time.

Ah cosplay and fanfiction, other hobbies/special interests of mine. Slash fanfiction has been a female and queer driven part of fandom since the 60s. Cosplay is a way to show your dedication, creativity and skill.

Yes there is misogyny in gaming. So many games are male power fantasies with female characters being reduced to window dressing. The lack of women in e-sports as well worries me aswell. Where are all the skilled female players?

But painting all gamers, especially those passionate about the medium as being maladjusted misfits with a lose grasp on reality, does nothing to open it to women. More women in gaming at all levels means things are more likely to change.

🙄

That saves us a conversation about how someone who isn't transphobic was targeted by the exact same mob that came for Anita Sarkeesian. Gamers are sometimes delightful. Brilliant insight.

@tackiestones

That saves us a conversation about how someone who isn't transphobic was targeted by the exact same mob that came for Anita Sarkeesian. Gamers are sometimes delightful. Brilliant insight.

I'm not sure they are the exact same people. TRAs seem to be from the other side of the political spectrum to the Gamergaters.

And Anita Sarkesian is lib fem all the way.

(Not that I think that makes Anita a deserving target!)

I'm not sure they are the exact same people. TRAs seem to be from the other side of the political spectrum to the Gamergaters.

Nah, thing is that misogyny exists along the political spectrum. Plenty of ‘gaters migrated on over from attacking libfems to attacking radfems once it became more acceptable to do the latter. Don’t forget these are a bunch of cowards. The target of their ire was always women.

There are also still “traditional” ‘gaters who will attack libfem women and radfems. They don’t see a distinction.

BTW Helen is one of the best things about The Atlantic. Actual journalism still exists.

I recently swapped my Guardian subscription for an Atlantic one. They seem to be among the few publications doing real journalism these days. Their Covid-19 and US election coverage has been outstanding; they employ journalists who seek out experts and diverse opinions, as journalists should. Jesse Singal also deserves praise for his very balanced article about teenage girls and gender dysphoria, which I'd say opened a few eyes to the issue.

(Wondering how to break the news to a PP that a lot of slash is in fact written by heterosexual women inspired by the theory that "one buff bloke in the nude good, two buff blokes in the nude better." Never been quite my bag, but I have friends who are very much straight, and write a lot of this stuff .)

@FWRLurker

I'm not sure they are the exact same people. TRAs seem to be from the other side of the political spectrum to the Gamergaters.

Nah, thing is that misogyny exists along the political spectrum. Plenty of ‘gaters migrated on over from attacking libfems to attacking radfems once it became more acceptable to do the latter. Don’t forget these are a bunch of cowards. The target of their ire was always women.

There are also still “traditional” ‘gaters who will attack libfem women and radfems. They don’t see a distinction.

Yep, this.

Women hatred is now socially acceptable just as long as it's rebadged as T*RF hate, and writing any sort of feminist piece around women's concerns must be hedged around with all manner of equivocations - just read the New Yorker piece recently on abortion follow-up, where the journalist earnestly explains that the term 'woman' is used only because in this instance, all the pregnant people in the study identified as such. It's rapidly becoming problematic to be feminist in a way that centres women, unless by 'women' you include male people, and exclude transmen and NB people (or include them - it seems either/both is wrong).

The drive to make feminism include men, or be dismissed as bigoted, has been a century in the making. Finally, a lever is working. This is it. It's defanging feminism completely - it's a toothless, neutered form that can achieve nothing of worth or value for female people, because we can no longer define feminism as being for female people, if the TRAs and MRAs have their way.

@Cailleach1

I think the idea of women as a class having associated rights, and especially if they resist their erosion, is claimed by some as transphobic.

If you look at John Stuart Mill and how he regards when someone adversely impacts on someone else's rights that is where their actions should stop as the other person has rights too and have they have a right not to be adversely impinged upon. The 'self-regarding' actions and 'other-regarding' actions. Self regarding actions are those is which only involves or impacts on yourself. Whether that is adverse or otherwise is your own business. When it is adversely impacts on someone else, then it ceases to be just be your own business and you are not in the sphere of your rights any longer. You have stepped over a line into someone else's space.

Beautifully expressed, thank you.