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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Woman’s hour transcript ... (I ❤️ Julie Bindel)

65 replies

FindTheTruth · 05/11/2020 12:47

Womans Hour www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000p0zn
Timestamp 28:00 Julie Bindel responds to growing online sex work during the pandemic, including OnlyFans selling online photos and videos for a monthly subscription (OnlyFans take 20%).

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TRANSCRIPT (JB part of it)

JB: I first want to address the language in this discussion - it is very one sided and belies a position using a term like ‘sex-worker’ instead of women who are prostituted and bland language when we’re talking about pornography, gives the impression that this is a sanitised version of prostitution from behind a camera. You can look at different levels of danger and clearly if there was a choice of on the street v behind a camera… you have to look at it in context. Make an assumption that men will suffer human rights if they can’t have access to women whether it’s direct or indirect. And some of the content on OnlyFans is directed by the punters who are paying is utterly grotesque and harmful to the women, despite the fact this is not seen as dangerous in any way. There are requests for women to dress as school girls, to choke themselves [JANE GARVEY INTERRUPTS], to film themselves defecating

[JANE GARVEY INTERRUPTS if anyone was upset by that perhaps I should have given a warning this would be explicit, so apologies for that…… can we just agree it gives some of these women a little more protection?].

JB: women have been stalked, their content has been dumped on sites such as pornhub, women are psychologically damaged by knowing that there is a permanent record of their prostitution, of their exploitation, that can be circulated evermore. Yes you can look at different levels of harm and risk, but it’s always risky. Prostitution is never safe. What we need to do is take the conversation off the women who are being exploited and who do have a human right, a basic human right to eat and feed their children, and we need to focus on the men, we need to focus on the demand.

JB: She said feminists have not been campaigning for better alternatives for women… we always have. We have been lobbying the government for time immemorial for exit strategies for women because the vast majority of women in prostitution. It’s feminists who want to see the end of prostitution and the criminalisation of demand. That took a case to the high court, which if successful would lead to the decriminalisation of any person in prostitution. So we were the ones who took that case.

Laura: you campaign for criminalisation of the sex industry by the criminalisation of clients, in other countries where that’s happened sex-workers have not been decriminalised. Throughout the pandemic, shocking harassment’s, police raids and arrests and this is not right. If the government are serious about stopping work they have to provide money and resources and not only exiting strategies because what are women existing into. We need the alternatives, the benefits at a level people can live on. Scrapping the 2 child limit and the 5 week wait would be the first thing.

JB: absolutely agree with Laura, we need to provide viable alternatives. It’s interesting though isn’t it? This is actually about women. This is about male violence and male dominance. This is not about men going hungry and starving and not being able to provide for their children during the pandemic, this is actually about women. We need to look at this as a symptom of patriarchy and male violence. That’s what the sex industry is

OP posts:
RuffleCrow · 05/11/2020 12:57

It's interesting that a factual description of what prostituted women are doing to earn money is automatically seen as in need of censorship, within the context of a debate on the subject. As with so often with feminist issues, it's women speaking plainly that's painted as the problem.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 05/11/2020 13:02

Who is Laura?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 05/11/2020 13:02

Thank you for doing this FindTheTruth! Thanks

HecatesCats · 05/11/2020 13:03

Came to post something similar Ruffle, it's really clear isn't it? Thanks Find and thanks Julie.

FindTheTruth · 05/11/2020 13:06

@Ereshkigalangcleg

Who is Laura?
Laura Watson from the Collective of English Prostitutes
OP posts:
FindTheTruth · 05/11/2020 13:08

Also... earlier in the programme they covered Johnny Depp losing his libel case against the Sun newspaper over an article that called him a "wife beater"

interesting points raised like why are young women excusing domestic abuse? Why the misogynistic stereotype of Amber Heard as a nagging woman and a gold digger?

OP posts:
Ereshkigalangcleg · 05/11/2020 13:11

Laura Watson from the Collective of English Prostitutes

Thank you.

Escapeplanning · 05/11/2020 13:11

I completely agree there should be financial aid for women exiting. I think it is a separate and differently structured benefit stream to job seekers allowance under UC though.

FloralBunting · 05/11/2020 13:39

Yes, keep the details of 'sex work' hazy and undefined. Let people fill in the blanks that make them comfortable. Let them be cossetted with cutesy notions based on Pretty Woman or Diary of a Call Girl, and think that cam work is like doing a work Zoom call in some sexy undies. Blech.

Abitofalark · 05/11/2020 13:39

This was yesterday's Woman's Hour - 3rd November - which I missed. In fact I thought Jane Garvey was away as I've heard a new presenter this week. If I'd known Julie Bindel was on...she is so dedicated and serious in her work of exposing and documenting prostitution and violence against women.
Intro - from the link:
"One group of self employed people we’ve not heard much about during the pandemic is sex workers. The coronavirus has spelt economic disaster for an industry which requires social contact and many are turning to online platforms like OnlyFans which allows them to sell photos and videos with a monthly subscription. Jane will be talking to Laura Watson from the Collective of English Prostitutes and the feminist writer Julie Bindel."

Butterer · 05/11/2020 13:41

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Abitofalark · 05/11/2020 13:46

Correction: Oops: 'yesterday's' is incorrect - but 3rd Nov is correct.

334bu · 05/11/2020 14:04

Thank you very interesting.

JosephineDeBeauharnais · 05/11/2020 14:17

@FloralBunting

Yes, keep the details of 'sex work' hazy and undefined. Let people fill in the blanks that make them comfortable. Let them be cossetted with cutesy notions based on Pretty Woman or Diary of a Call Girl, and think that cam work is like doing a work Zoom call in some sexy undies. Blech.
This ^^. The gory, gruesome details need much more exposure.
Angryresister · 05/11/2020 14:27

So glad to hear JB telling how it is, and not at all wanting to hear JG and Laura glossing over the details. And again feminists slurred although as Julie said, we all want more exit strategies and funds for Wyoming trying to get out.

Thelnebriati · 05/11/2020 14:27

I think its more factual to state this is what clients demand before they will pay you, and their demands are becoming ever more extreme.
Its not a service women are offering as much as a demand that they are meeting.

TheAdventuresoftheWishingChair · 05/11/2020 14:38

Yes, keep the details of 'sex work' hazy and undefined. Let people fill in the blanks that make them comfortable

Absolutely this. Why should this conversation not be talked about freely? We're talking about the reality of so many women in this country - but apparently it's not palatable for people sitting comfortably in their homes? It is a betrayal of every woman and child who is having to survive being exploited right now.

TheAdventuresoftheWishingChair · 05/11/2020 14:39

Actually even WH calling them 'sex workers' makes me want to never listen to the programme ever again.

FindTheTruth · 05/11/2020 14:52

Woman's hour 🤮language: self employed people, industry, sex-work, social contact and sell photos and videos

Julie Bindel ❤️corrects the language: women who are prostituted, pornography, directed by the punters , utterly grotesque and harmful to the women, dress as school girls, to choke themselves to film themselves defecating

Yes, keep the details of 'sex work' hazy and undefined. Let people fill in the blanks that make them comfortable

100% this ^

OP posts:
Escapeplanning · 05/11/2020 14:57

Julie pills no punches. More power to her elbow. Women need to know what there menfolk are up to online when they are doing their VAT returns.

picklemewalnuts · 05/11/2020 15:18

And the villain in this is apparently the police enforcing social distancing "shocking harassment’s, police raids and arrests and this is not right."

IDanielRadcliffe · 05/11/2020 15:19

Someone linked to a thread on Twitter about camming and how it quickly escalates and what the men ask for and then how within a few months she was contemplating meeting someone in real life. Does anyone remember?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 05/11/2020 15:24

I do remember it. It was shocking. Can't remember where it was though.

DidoLamenting · 05/11/2020 15:39

Excellent thread. It's essential the language doesn't get sanitised.

DrDavidBanner · 05/11/2020 17:45

I remember reading that @IDanielRadcliffe it was a really difficult read and it did make me see the so called middle class happy hookers in a completely different light.

I was listening to a Podcast yesterday, it was 3 men talking and the subject got to OnlyFans, not sure why I was only half listening but they were talking as if its a very benign, innocent pasttime. Then they started another subject and used quite misoynistic thorwaway language s I had to switch off.