Richard O'Brien interview

[Jocasta2018]

I don't know how to put a link to a newspaper article in Mumsnet however there's a fascinating interview with Richard O'Brien of Rocky Horror Show fame in The Guardian today.
Whilst describing himself as 70% man & 30% woman he states that 'a trans woman can't be a woman. You can be an idea of a woman'.
I don't know if there's a thread about this already.
If there isn't then could someone put a link up for others to read as it's a refreshing read. He even sides with JKR in a roundabout way!

Interesting

www.theguardian.com/stage/2020/nov/05/richard-obrien-interview-rocky-horror-trans-crack-stroke-70s

I saw that too.

He also said he didn't want to be too vocal on the subject because he knew what had happened to JK Rowling. (Or words to that effect)

78! Blimey.

Interesting they describe him at the start as "the rakish Rocky Horror Show creator, Crystal Maze presenter and transgender parent-of-three" - usually you'd expect a transgender 'he' to be biologically female. " “I believe myself probably to be about 70% male, 30% female … I think of myself as a third sex and it makes things easier.”"

On one hand it makes it harder to establish the bio sex of the person you're talking about (where this is relevant, and I think when talking about sex roles and stereotypes it is relevant) but on the other it's quite refreshing to see someone describe themselves as trans as an aspect of their identity but use their original pronouns.

Talking about 'sex changes' though seems very old-fashioned. I have to say I'm quite gobsmacked that even a transgender male star of Rocky Horror, at age 78, can't feel that he can be honest with his views about gender in case 'people get upset'. So telling. Lots of people seem scared to own their opinions.

I have a deep fondness for RO’B, growing up with the Crystal Maze and developing an unhealthy obsession with Rocky Horror as many of us don’t-fit-in-with-the-popular-kids do.

But “All shaving is feminising”?? Really?? I call #genderwang. I don’t get any less female by not shaving body hair! Still a woman!

I’ll read the rest of the article now but that made my teeth itch.

There is another thread about this.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4070512-You-can-be-the-idea-of-a-woman?msgid=101485120#101485120

@Cwenthryth

I have a deep fondness for RO’B, growing up with the Crystal Maze and developing an unhealthy obsession with Rocky Horror as many of us don’t-fit-in-with-the-popular-kids do.

But “All shaving is feminising”?? Really?? I call #genderwang. I don’t get any less female by not shaving body hair! Still a woman!

I’ll read the rest of the article now but that made my teeth itch.

I don't agree that shaving is feminising, but your argument conflates being female and femininity. The two can be entirely mutually exclusive.

Do you think “feminising” means “more feminine”? I use it regularly in a medical context to mean, in effect, “more female” as in “feminising effect of hyperoestrogenism” for example. Relating to sex-differentiated biological parameters, not cultural stereotypes.

Maybe femininising should be a word, for clarity sake :-)

Interesting! And yes I did/do think in general terms it means more feminine... but I must admit I'm not familiar with your example.

But does it mean that, cwenryth? It is not actually possible to become more female. Female is either/or: either female or male. The attributes that are associated with being female are feminine. So an increase in those attributes could be considered to be more feminine, it would increase the person's femininity regardless of their sex. An increase in the attributes associated with being female could make a male more feminine, but could not make him more female.

I agree with ROB, shaving body hair is feminising. The fact that I don't doesn't make me any less female, but if I wanted to look very feminine I probably would shave my body hair. It has nothing to do with being female or being a woman.

Love, love, LOVE R.O’B 😍

Bless him, he's right they'd attack him like crazy for speaking out of turn.

Insane though it is

I like the mention of thinking of himself as a 'third gender'; I have seen comments in the past on Twitter talking of places more tolerant, historically and currently, of trans, and saying 'some places even have 5 genders' so I Googled it, and yes there are, and those genders are: male, female, trans male, trans female, and intersex....I would welcome those categories!

He did an almost identical interview about 5 or 6 years back, so this isn't really new.

I would be quite happy with a social category of "third gender". It's the science denying insistence that "transwomen are literally women in ever possible respect" that is so dangerous, and has such adverse consequences for women.

You want a third gender or similar social category, you want to campaign for an end to prejudice in housing or employment for people who identify as that, crack on. Seems like a good solution to me, even if I personally don't find it a useful conceptual framework. Bit like religious belief.

Just leave women's sex-based rights alone.

ROB has always said this. It's very clear, if you look at his past comments, that he's using a metaphor and only talking in terms of gender stereotypes. He has no illusions that he's 30% woman or that shaving/clothes make any difference to his biology.

He's has little push back in the past, unsurprising given his status as an LGBT national treasure. He's from that generation that actually wanted to break down gender barriers, rather than build them up but introduce a passport system.

Love him.

I remember reading something very similar in pink news years ago (before I knew what PN was like). I remember it being an early intro to this issue, as it seemed crazy to me people were saying he was transphobic.

I don't know why he describes himself as transgender. He is a gender non conforming man.

Maybe he's expanding the idea of what it means to be transgender!

Weirdly this is what I've seen the non trans trans lobby starting to say, that trans is knowing sex and gender is different.

But still claiming be nice and tw should use certain loos and very strongly that children's gender is be respected and omg you're sooooo transphobic.

So I wonder if he's being clever by agreeing with that bit but pointing out the cognitive dissonance.

As much as I find the term "idea of a woman" offensive (sexist bullshit) that's all these men can be.

I see so many analogies with the arts and how 'ideas of things' are created - we all know it's not real! Popular shite lite media science is to blame for the rise of ideas as facts.

Sorry but I call "genderwoo" too

So on the one hand, he claims to be "30% woman" so he believes that "woman" is something a man can "be", that "woman" is basically certain woo feelings/expression etc.

On the other hand says a man can't be a woman, only an idea of one, but they can still claim "woman" status, because "woman" is just an idea.

This person is no ally to women.

And as PP said above, how the fuck is he "trans" he used to be an inspiring gender-non-conforming man, breaking down patriarchal constraints. Instead of which he's now reinforcing them by stating "30% woman".
How???
How exactly?
Oh, I know, it's the lipstick. Eyeshadow. Tights. Of course....