Beating the rap: Julie Bindel shows how abused women are being let down by domestic violence perpetrator programmes

[stumbledin]

Not sure there is a thread on this but if not this is the link to the article thecritic.co.uk/issues/november-2020/beating-the-rap/

Thanks for sharing this. I'm really cynical at all these programmes. They may work in a few cases but for the majority they improve skills in manipulation.

Thank you for sharing, a very brutal but necessary piece of journalism. It puts into perspective the comments from the Cheif Constable of (?) West Midlands who suggested recently that the police should be freed up from dealing with this type of incident and focusing on proper crimes. When a senior policeman comes out and says that, it makes it abundantly clear where we all stand.

Ugh. We have such a long way to go.

There have been so many dangerous stalkers sent on these courses rather than being sent to prison

how on earth is this happening?

So violent men go on a course, pass with flying colours and talk the talk to enforce their rights to access their victims including children.

where a prison sentence would normally be given:

No violent man who controlled the household finances should be allowed go on these courses instead of prison

No man making excuses should be allowed go on these courses instead of prison. who is making these decisions? someone with even a little experience knows that an abuser excusing what they did is not going to 'reform'.

90 per cent of the men interviewed had, prior to the course, attempted to justify their abusive behaviour. After the course, this tendency had barely reduced at all, with almost three-quarters of the men still making excuses.

There was a survey some years ago of rapists attitude to rape. It found that most of them thought all men would rape if they had the chance. They were just unlucky because they'd been caught.

I think sexual violence including paedophilia can only be combatted by a blanket social shaming, not tea and sympathy. This behaviour has to be seen as a crime against humanity not an expression of low self esteem, wrong choices, stress etc

most of them thought all men would rape if they had the chance

that's awful and it shows their way of thinking, because it's not true

@Imnobody4

There was a survey some years ago of rapists attitude to rape. It found that most of them thought all men would rape if they had the chance. They were just unlucky because they'd been caught.

I think sexual violence including paedophilia can only be combatted by a blanket social shaming, not tea and sympathy. This behaviour has to be seen as a crime against humanity not an expression of low self esteem, wrong choices, stress etc

Yes, If only men were as outraged by all this as women are, then rapists would be shamed and ostracised, as would Feckless Dads who contort themselves to a ridiculous degree to avoid paying a fair amount for their children, etc.

As it is, while most men would tut and shake their heads, they'd still share a bar with a man they full well is cheating on his Child Maintenance payments and terrorising his ex-wife into the bargain, and have at least a short chat.

Unfortunately, it's men who need to shame men.

I’ve worked in DV for a longtime.
We’ve recently had a presentation from one of the people working with perps to reduce DV offending.
He was passionate and really believed in what he was doing was making a difference, we asked him for a case study.
He described quite a bad case, and concluded that it was a success and the woman had been protected.
On further questioning, it was clear that the woman was now in a refuge and was still in a relationship and being abused by this perp, BUT not as abused as she was before. The other cases were more or less the same.
They genuinely believed that the project would make a difference, but I was thinking throughout it you’re on a hiding to nothing mate.

Bancroft noted the flaws in these programs as a bloke who worked with abusers. He condemns them pretty harshly.
Why is no one listening.

This wilful naivety from people who work with violent and abusive men just astounds me. Is it because they want to see the good in people? Or because they have to feel like they can make a difference?

Someone who repeatedly beats up and rapes their partner knows that it is wrong, they just don't care. The only way they can be made to care is to face consequences which far outstrip being told by some foolish do-gooder that domestic abuse isn't nice.

I don't know but it seems a kind of denial to me. It's the over reaction to 'toxic masculinity' where men take it personally.
It's a bit like the bell curve which shows men predominantly in the edges of genius and low IQ, violence etc They all want to point out the genius bit but deny the other end.

Hard reading. What is the solution? Is there no way to change violent/abusive men?

One of the problems is these tendencies appear early. Before they hit the legal system these tendencies have been reinforced by porn, and other mixed social signals. It's cumulative not a sudden on /off switch.
It's like treatment of animals is a red flag among children.

Much better research needs to be done on interventions at an earlier stage as well as investing in positive early years policies. But that means we have to acknowledge the damage that is being done by these men and that there is a societal aspect to it.

Much better research needs to be done on interventions at an earlier stage as well as investing in positive early years policies. But that means we have to acknowledge the damage that is being done by these men and that there is a societal aspect to it.

Yes, I have the impression the problem is so large and pervasive that it's hard to even try and imagine ways to counter it. Those are good points, but won't be quick or easy fixes, of course.