Government statement on single sex spaces as guaranteed under the EA

[stumbledin]

Marsha de Cordova Shadow Secretary of State for Women and Equalities

To ask the Minister for Women and Equalities, with reference to the Written Statement of 22 September 2020 entitled Government Equalities Office Update, HCWS462 what steps she is taking to help ensure that (a) her Department, (b) the Equality and Human Rights Commission and (c) other public bodies produce statutory guidance on the provision of single-sex exemptions consistent with the Equality Act 2010.

Kemi Badenoch The Exchequer Secretary

The government believes that the protection of single-sex spaces, as provided for in the Equality Act, is important. The Act makes clear that providers have the right to restrict the use of spaces on the basis of sex, and exclude transgender people, with or without a Gender Recognition Certificate, if this is justified.

At this stage, we are not proposing further legislative guidance but we will keep this under review. The Equality and Human Rights Commission is independent of the government and makes its own decisions in relation to drafting the guidance that it creates and publishes.

www.theyworkforyou.com/wrans/?id=2020-10-12.102157.h

Info from WPUK fb page

The government believes that the protection of single-sex spaces, as provided for in the Equality Act, is important. The Act makes clear that providers have the right to restrict the use of spaces on the basis of sex, and exclude transgender people, with or without a Gender Recognition Certificate, if this is justified

We need to ensure that providers do restrict as above and that the EHRC makes the correct decisions when drafting their Guidance - it is NOT a breach of the EQA to keep spaces single sex and the only justification needed is that users want and expect these spaces to be used only by members of their own sex.

It’s encouraging that the shadow SS for Women and Equalities would ask this question and draw attention to the legal right for organizations to create single-sex spaces. It’s a bit discouraging that the government produced a non-answer, though it seems like that’s par for the course with enquiries about what they are doing when they aren’t doing anything.

It does make it clear that there is a right to restrict access to spaces and that whether or not someone has a GRC is irrelevant therefore those who do restrict access are not in breach of the EQA which is the polar opposite of what Stonewall et al have been 'advising'.

Hang on whut?

Has Marsha de Cordova just admitted she knows what a woman is?

@teawamutu

Hang on whut?

Has Marsha de Cordova just admitted she knows what a woman is?

My thoughts too.

A few of us are gathering evidence from the Muslim community as to why their need for single-sex spaces for women is critical. Too often - in fact always - their needs are over-looked. WPUK has a statement to make on this but if it can be backed up by scripture then there is no way that single-sex spaces can be blocked.

Or am I simplifying things too much?

Well that is helpful and can be waved under the noses of those that deny that this is the case.

I really like the bit about a GRC not being relevant and there is no case by case basis mentioned. Onward!

I find this really encouraging. Is that misguided?

What does ...if this is justified... encompass?

Because it really seems to be carrying a heavy load here

@JellyFishSquish

What does ...if this is justified... encompass?

I think if it's justified to have a male-free space in the first place (ie because a woman 'would rrasonably object to sharing the space with a person of the opposite sex', as the EA says) then it is justified to exclude all the males who think they have special feelings but whom women can still tell are male.

So this applies to toilets, women's prisons and women's refuges, and other single spaces like changing rooms and rooms in youth hostels, yes? Do we need to make more noise about this in terms of pushing back on organisations who have already adopted "gender neutral" policies?

"gender neutral" as in women's spaces have been taken over by transwomen.

Promising.

Is it just me that finds it weird that so many things seem to be moving in potentially different directions all at once?

The govt is setting out fairly clear guidelines on single sex spaces, education and sexist stereotyping, clearer info on puberty blockers is starting to come out, world rugby was very clear -

• yet the WEC seems to be about to try and push back on all of this, Stonewall is resurrecting itself as an intersex advocate (somewhat strangely as this has nothing to do wth sexuality)

I suppose it's in the nature of things to be uneven. It just all seems so tentative and liable to change. All the JRs lining up, now, too, Maya Forstater's appeal ... a lot of these things are linked or have potential to influence each other ... yet they're not supposed to reference each other, somehow ... is joined up thinking just too naive of me to hope for?

I'm with you on that Arabella. I wish there was a word for when you can tell the weather is changing, but you're not sure if it's for good or for ill. I bet the Germans have one!

I wonder if Marsha de Cordova asked the question thinking she would get a different reply.

As it is the answer makes it look like Labour hasn't really understood that the EA does entitle women to single sex provision.

Thinking this has made me very happy!

I suspect Marsha de Cordova is aware of the conflict of rights and is softly-softly trying to steer Labour to a slightly less extremist position.

@PearPickingPorky

I suspect Marsha de Cordova is aware of the conflict of rights and is softly-softly trying to steer Labour to a slightly less extremist position.

That's what I'm tentatively hoping

@MidClegs

Have you seen this? muslimnews.co.uk/newspaper/home-news/mps-set-party-group-muslim-women/

Would be better if anything submitted about Muslim Women came from a group led by and about Muslim women?

stunbledin no - I had not seen that, thanks for the link. How is Nokes going to have any positive influence on this though as she has already showed her hand when it comes to the GRA?

I have been raising the point about Muslim women for a while as DH is Muslim. He is North African and I am well aware how deep the restrictions on mixing run. My SILS could not use facilities if a male bodied person was in there. I have seen them wait in another room until non family male visitors left. Allowing male bodied people into facilities, women only sessions etc. would effectively bar many Muslim women from attending. Yet Religion is a PC under the Equality Act.

People need to read the Equality Act wording. There doesn’t seem to be any right to single sex spaces; if there was, it would be very simple.

The emphasis/the way the Act is drafted is the other way round. The Act is drafted from the perspective that discrimination on the basis of a protected characteristic is against the law and that discrimination has to fall within an exemption. One possible exemption is on the basis of sex in the provision of single sex services under Part 7 of Schedule 3 Of the Act but that is an ability or right to discriminate on the basis of sex within those restricted categories not an obligation on any provider to do so. In other words, it is discretionary. It is because of this that those arguing for single sex services have an upward hill to climb because the burden of persuasion etc is on them.

...and of course, it is easier in many cases for a provider not to take advantage of the ability to discriminate on the basis of sex because if challenged they would have to incur the trouble and expense of proving, potentially in court, that that single sex provision fits within the exemption and is lawful ... and as we’ve seen, that is a difficult call to make as the guidance, political statements and judgements are all over the place at the moment.

If there is no need for a particular service or facility to be single sex then there sure as hell is no need for it to be 'single gender'. The general need for various provision to be divided into men's and women's is widely accepted.