Politicisation of Mumsnet

[ByGaslight]

Got this as part of the avalanche of conference / seminar notifications sent via my HEI, it's a communications or internet studies based list I believe and there's a stooshie already among the academics on the list about a webinar advertised at Robert Gordon's Uni called 'The politicisation of Mumsnet' - a couple of academic subscribers have already heavily critiqued the webinar as transphobic, it's based around a book publication by Sarah Pedersen, advertised as: www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/the-politicization-of-mumsnet-online-webinar-tickets-123449989241

Do you know what they said about it? There's a discussion about the book here, I'll try to find it.

I'm looking forward to it.

Here's one about the author talking about the book on Woman's Hour recently.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4054737-Womans-Hour-20-October-Has-Mumnset-become-too-politicised

How can Mumsnet become too politicised? The personal is political and in the case of a strong social movement trying to erase words describing women's experiences and, in particular, mothers' experiences surely being political is the only sane response?

It originally came via a list called MECCSA@JISCMAIL, if anyone subscribes. Broadly 2 people saying books like this shouldn't be advertised on an academic list because they are transphobic and 2 others saying academic work needs to be advertised even if academics are critical of it.

It caught my eye because arguments about closing down debate here mirror a more general tendency - but academics are meant to be able to debate.

Maybe they're still expecting the little woman to keep quiet.

It caught my eye because arguments about closing down debate here mirror a more general tendency - but academics are meant to be able to debate.

This began to change with the safe spaces movement from late 1970s onwards. Initially the safe spaces where separate rooms where LGB students could go and know that nobody would harass them or say anything nasty. But the idea of safe spaces expanded to fill the whole university.

Debate, by its very nature, cannot really happen in a space which is utterly safe for all participants when lack of safety is now often viewed as including hearing something unpleasant.

I do have some sympathy with that, because it is true that the attributes and ability of only certain races and of only one sex tend to be the topics of debates. Likewise, there are few debates about heterosexuality. But I still think debates are important and some of the problems can be combated without abandoning debating by more careful and fair planning.

Debate, by its very nature, cannot really happen in a space which is utterly safe for all participants when lack of safety is now often viewed as including hearing something unpleasant.

So, how do these people deal with the real world? Or is the new thinking that people should be nursed from cradle to grave.

Being a woman IS political. Of course mumsnet is "politicised". It bloody well ought to be.

damn women, sharing information amongst themselves, it must be stopped! 🧐

@highame

Debate, by its very nature, cannot really happen in a space which is utterly safe for all participants when lack of safety is now often viewed as including hearing something unpleasant.

So, how do these people deal with the real world? Or is the new thinking that people should be nursed from cradle to grave.

I thought that this stuff would be left behind when they graduate, but sadly I am now learning it is no longer the case. Yes, there are now demands for activist organisations and media sites to be safe spaces.

It is viewed as normal by some young progressives. But what is more worrying is that almost anything can be interpreted as unsafe and the person who feels unsafe fully expects to be the judge and the jury and the prosecutor in the case. And for the organisation to act on that basis.

there are now demands for activist organisations and media sites to be safe spaces

They ... they want the news to be a safe space?

This is why my reaction to sensitive little woke flowers is so often "Christ All-bluddy-mighty, they don't know they're born, do they."

Likewise "if that's the worst that's ever happened to them they've had a bloody easy life."

I met Prof. Pederson at the wonderful Women's Liberation Conference in February (OMG 1000 women in a room! The energy - and gosh, will we ever be able to do that again )

Anyway ...

she's a darn good academic, nice, direct & kind, (from what I could see in an afternoon's acquaintance!) and not a rampaging person filled with hate.

And gosh, haven't women always had to listen to - and even participate in - debates about our existence, our intelligence, our bodies, our physiologies, our mental states, our humanity? We still do - look at debates in the US over abortion & contraception.

Gawd, they'll be wanting the vote next.

@nepeta

How can Mumsnet become too politicised? The personal is political and in the case of a strong social movement trying to erase words describing women's experiences and, in particular, mothers' experiences surely being political is the only sane response?

I couldn’t have put it better myself, @nepeta!

The policing of academic discourse which ends in 'You can't speak at all about this' bothers me, from wherever it comes. I have heard a lot of debate over the years and seen bad ideas countered over and over by good arguments. I do understand that what you could call vexatious debate is very frustrating, but I struggle with the idea of topics which we can't speak about. Argument is a long haul.

People commenting on the list seem to see the 'gender critical' position as illegitimate, in the same way some academics would say holocaust denial or being persuaded of biological race superiority are just not legitimate debating positions.

People commenting on the list seem to see the 'gender critical' position as illegitimate

Yes, I think it's a big problem. I find this attitude quite absurd.

People commenting on the list seem to see the 'gender critical' position as illegitimate, in the same way some academics would say holocaust denial or being persuaded of biological race superiority are just not legitimate debating positions

Difference being that the Shoah actually happened, and there is documentary evidence. Ditto ideas about race (which is not a difference of physiology at a genetic level).

Gender critical feminism is a rational argument which doesn't falsify the documentary evidence. People don't have to agree, but it doesn't mean that either "side" is wholly wrong, or wholly right.

People commenting on the list seem to see the 'gender critical' position as illegitimate

In conversation I often find that those who do, have profoundly misunderstood the gender critical position. But when you get messages saying this book shouldn't even be allowed to be discussed, it's almost impossible to explain it to them.

Given just how many controversial, fractious, hostile debates academia has engaged - much to its advantage over the centuries - this is a worrying development.

I'd be worried if Mumsnet wasn't political.

Oh this is funny! From the Webinar description:

“ investigates the growing politicization of the online parenting forum Mumsnet and its use by politicians to influence middle-class women in the UK “

(my italics!)

Really does make wonder about the Professor’s grip on reality.

Can’t wait for the next Mumsnet Web Chat to get a dose of indoctrination and confirmation of my social status!

Does the brainwashing by MPs not work on Working Class Mumsnetters? It’s a puzzle!

Maybe there are lots of politicians quietly guiding these discussions, because they certainly haven't influenced this section much.

I'm glad you're doing this - I came to do it

Excellent. I attended the Robert Gordon one and thoroughly enjoyed it. She's a good speaker with a great grasp of the facts and knowledge of her subject area. I've signed up to the MN Zoom too. My one regret is that we won't be able to continue the discussion over a gin or two