Claire Parry’s killer found NOT GUILTY of Murder.

[GroundAlmonds]

Unbelievable.

www.dorsetecho.co.uk/news/18825133.dorset-policeman-timothy-brehmer-found-not-guilty-murder/

By law it is manslaughter. It wasn't premeditated.

It isn't premeditation that matters, it's intent to kill/cause GBH that differentiates the two. Premeditation is taken into account as an aggravating factor for sentencing and provides evidence for the jury, but you can still murder someone without having planned to in the weeks/days/hours/moments leading up to it.

I really struggle to understand how strangling someone isn't seen as intent to kill/cause serious harm though.

Disgraceful. He murdered her. This verdict is almost victim blamey- silly woman dying when she was merely being vigorously throttled and ruining this guy's plans! Ffs!

Does anyone know what the difference in max/min sentencing is between murder and manslaughter?

@User27aw

Murder doesnt have to be premeditated.

It has to have mens rea - the intention to kill. That can be founded on in an instant thought.

The sentence for manslaughter can be tough too.

The sentence for manslaughter can be tough too

Not today though. Not sentencing the same day as the verdict. No time to order psychological reports.

The max manslaughter tariff is life, sentencing tariff guidelines are online, I’d suspect between 6 and 12 years depending if they decide he has medium or high culpability.

@PaleBlueMoonlight

It doesn't have to be premeditated to be murder, you just have to mean to kill or mean to very seriously hurt the person.

The mens rea element for murder is carrying out an act that can reasonably be forseen to kill or cause GBH. What may or may not have actually been intended doesnt come into it.

So if you do something that's likely to kill or seriously injure someone you can be charged with murder even if you weren't actually intending for them to die.

Like the fact he was a police officer? Is there any evidence police officers get off with things or get lighter sentences? I used to work for a big metropolitan police force, civilian staff, and I worked with two officers who ended up in prison. One arguably got a harsh sentence for a first offence for dishonesty, entirely financial nothing physical. I'm not sure about the other one as I had moved on by then.

Surely some of the jurers must have been women though?

I'm amazed that the jury came to this verdict.

They were in a car when it happened, and he says he accidentally slipped and fell on her. Even in a fairly spacious car it is difficult to manoeuvre. If it was that easy to accidentally kill people when trying to get them.out of a car, toddlers would be at huge risk as we've all.had to wrestle one into or out of a car at some point.

A “kerfuffle”, according to PA copy being used. Jesus Christ.

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/oct/27/dorset-police-officer-timothy-brehmer-cleared-of-murdering-lover-claire-parry-after-she-told-wife-of-affair?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

This is a fucking travesty, no justice at all.

Something very similar happened to someone I knew. Got off with manslaughter after essentially putting her life, mental health history on trial instead of him - the pillar of the community who first strangled his wife over a petty argument, then fetched a hammer from the shed to smash her head in. Manslaughter, and back on the street in under four years.

For Clare's family - know you have support, from decent people everywhere. This is not justice.

I won’t be sorry if he meets an energetic “kerfuffle” in prison, quite honestly.

You do need intent. It is the intent that stops it from being manslaughter.

www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/homicide-murder-and-manslaughter

@BlueThistles

He will still get Life 🌺

😂 No, he really won't. Slap on the hand with a wet bus ticket, coming his way.

[quote PaleBlueMoonlight]You do need intent. It is the intent that stops it from being manslaughter.

www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/homicide-murder-and-manslaughter[/quote]
Yes, but intent in law is carrying out an action where death or serious injury is, to a reasonable person, a likely outcome.

Its not the same thing as deliberately intending to kill them as that's not something that could ever be proven.

It’s also irrelevant that he brought a knife with the intention to kill himself. In fact he lied so much we can’t even be sure of that - he said that she attacked him with the knife bit he was caught because the wounds were clearly self inflicted. This points even more to culpability because it suggests he has deliberately tried to do a cover up. There are quite a lot of cases where murderers self harm themselves to make it look like they were also attacked.

@StephenBelafonte

Surely some of the jurers must have been women though?

I'm confident I could square off against 7 or 8 angry and porn soaked men in a closed jury room, but could every woman - or every man for that matter? The level of social change required to change outcomes in one of these jury decisions would be close to a race-hate trial in the old south. We're talking ingrained prejudice, entitlement and hate. Including internalised misogyny.

This is why these sorts of trials need to become bench trials, with a lot of prescription of outcome (e.g. practice directions to follows) and plenty of public monitoring.

Ah yes he accidentally throttled her and the other woman he'd had an affair with who said he was controlling was what? A fantasist? A liar? A bit dim?
It really isn't hard for men to get away with Murder :(

Yes, ie you intended to do the thing that a reasonable person would know could lead to death. The reasonable person is what we would expect people to know. It is therefore imputed that the killer knew and therefore intended it. So, if the killer says “I didn’t intend to kill them and I didn’t know that that was a possible/likely outcome” the prosecution can say that, in effect, they are lying. Hence intent is proved.

No sign of any reporting of the sentence yet. Might even be suspended. Nothing would surprise me after that verdict.

Perhaps he had a good lawyer.

Me, I'm always strangling people by mistake.

Ooops.

Sorry

I meant "never"

I'm never strangling people by mistake

Not even once.

What an absolute shitbag he is. The poor women who have encoutered him, the poor children whose lives he has permanently damaged. I hope no woman ever goes near him for the rest of his life.

Disgusting. And depressingly common.