Women at Doha airport were removed from flights and forced to undergo invasive internal inspection in an ambulance on the tarmac

[ReplacementPlasticUterus]

I can't quite believe this.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-54682565

For putting the baby in a plastic bag and hiding it in a bin? There is no justification for that

So in your eyes self defence, mental illness etc is no mitigation for a crime? Should we imprison abused women who retaliate and murder their partners? What about women with mental health disorders who accidentally leave their medication out and their child dies?

Who are you to decide what is justified and what isn’t, with no knowledge of this woman and her circumstances.

@DidoLamenting

You say this with zero idea of the woman's mental state. We simply are not in a position to make any assessment without that information

There is no justification for putting the baby in a plastic bag and hiding it in a bin. Her mental state might be raised as a defence but that is entirely different from saying there was a justification for disposing of a child in that manner.

Once again, you are in no position to decide whether there is justification, because you lack possession of the full facts. Your assessment is by definition made in ignorance.

There is no point in arguing over the mother.

Unlikely she is a woman who felt she had a range of perfectly safe options to choose from but decided do this instead. She hasn't been found yet. If she is, we won't hear her full side of the story. It makes no difference to the poor infant anyway.

It's all awful. Awful that a woman can feel that is her only option, and so awful for the baby.

None of it is any justification or even an explanation for what the authorities did to all those women and girls, which was state-sanctioned, serious, mass sexual assault.

Individuals involved have been referred to a prosecutor. Let's see what comes of that, once the international spotlight moves on.

In a hierarchical culture it is easy to find some low ranked official to blame. This avoids any discussion of the cultural contempt of women which is the context.

@StartupRepair

In a hierarchical culture it is easy to find some low ranked official to blame. This avoids any discussion of the cultural contempt of women which is the context.

Yes. I'm just sharing the update that was on the ABC this morning, not suggesting it as a remedy for culturally sanctioned misogyny.

Well the people who carried out the internals were probably (hopefully, presumably) women too.

So no probs there from the perspective of a misogynist culture.

The story seemed to suggest it was those who ordered the examinations to take place who were being referred to prosecutors.

I've posted further up this thread but having lived and worked in Qatar for nearly a decade I have seen the extreme discrepancies justice. Nothing will happen to the people who ordered this shocking intrusion.

And even if the women are compensated it is pennies from a pile of unimaginable wealth the sovereign wealth fund has.

Qataris can literally get away with murder. Sentences are only smoke screens and perpetrators are loose on technicalities in no time.
On the other hand, expatriate and migrant labourers will be imprisoned and/or deported at will.
The mother of the baby will probably be one of many others who have conceived non consensually may have been dumped at the airport close to if not already in labour.
She would not have been able to have any medical attention during the pregnancy due to lack of marriage certificate or husband in country.

If she was to remain in Qatar , she and the baby would be imprisoned either in a prison or left in an embassy shelter. It would be years before she would be deported and the baby may be placed in an orphanage in Qatar.

Nothing happens to the fathers of these babies.
Yes, putting a baby in a bin is dreadful but my guess is her circumstances were dreadful.

The Qatari government has now formally apologised to the Australian government. For what it's worth.

Once again, you are in no position to decide whether there is justification, because you lack possession of the full facts. Your assessment is by definition made in ignorance

You seem to have a difficulty understanding the meaning of justification. Or at least I hope it's simply you don't understand what the word means.

the action of showing something to be right or reasonable

Her mental health and circumstances might be offered as a defence or a plea in mitigation- but they are not justification. It is absolutely vile to say there was justification for disposing of a child in this way.

@StartupRepair

The Qatari government has now formally apologised to the Australian government. For what it's worth.

I'm sure that'll make the women and girls feel better.

@DidoLamenting

Once again, you are in no position to decide whether there is justification, because you lack possession of the full facts. Your assessment is by definition made in ignorance

You seem to have a difficulty understanding the meaning of justification. Or at least I hope it's simply you don't understand what the word means.

the action of showing something to be right or reasonable

Her mental health and circumstances might be offered as a defence or a plea in mitigation- but they are not justification. It is absolutely vile to say there was justification for disposing of a child in this way.

Dear me, this is rather embarrassing for you.

The Cambridge Dictionary defines justification as a good explanation for something. Given that some psychological conditions exist that would provide a full and comprehensive explanation for this behaviour, and you continue to operate in utter ignorance of the woman's mental state, you are not now and were not yesterday capable of ascertaining whether there was any justification or not.

Moralise all you like, this will continue to be the case until you acquire both the necessary clinical expertise and knowledge of the woman's mental state. Which might be a while.

Oh dear me- the first definition of justification is what I quoted. You know perfectly well the sense in which justification is most commonly used and it goes well beyond a simple explanation. It carries connotations of being right.

Anyone who thinks the mother was justified in dumping and hiding her baby in a bin is despicable.

Argue all you want over the technicality of a definition. I interpret it as @orcus has, to mean a reason or explanation.

Doesn’t change the issue is with these ME states and the way they treat women, which means dumping a baby in a bin is their only choice.

@DidoLamenting

Oh dear me- the first definition of justification is what I quoted. You know perfectly well the sense in which justification is most commonly used and it goes well beyond a simple explanation. It carries connotations of being right.

Anyone who thinks the mother was justified in dumping and hiding her baby in a bin is despicable.

This is essentially a hissyfit on your part.

The word justification is commonly used to describe a clear and comprehensive reason. There are mental health conditions that would provide such. If you wish to disagree about this, you'll need to provide a counter-argument from someone who has actual expertise in linguistics, unlike you, and a better argument than foot-stomping.

Until and unless you are able to do that, it will continue to be the case for those of us who understand the meaning of the word justification that you lack sufficient information, and thus your conclusion is worthless. As are any moral assessments you're arrogant enough to make.

How do we know the person who left the baby in the rubbish bin was the mother? We know- because the baby did survive- that the baby was old enough to survive separation from the mother. How do we know the baby wasn’t left by the father or by a relative wanting to deflect shame from the family? How do we know the baby wasn’t taken from the mother by threat or force? Think about it - if a baby were found in the lav at Heathrow or Pierson or LAX - we’d be looking fir who LEFT the baby, not for who birthed the baby.

Exactly Maduixa.

We don't, but if there's one thing this thread has shown, lacking full command of the facts doesn't stop people who want to self-righteously pontificate about the mother from doing so.

We're really very "lucky" in the west compared to women in India or the middle east or Chechnya.

Theocratic societies have never been kind to women.

Fucking demented. I read that it's not uncommon for men in India to search the name of girls that have been recently gang raped and murdered in the hopes that footage will be posted online for them to get off to.

This has all gone very quiet - has there been an update that I've missed ?

I can't see an recent articles. I think investigations are ongoing (or it's being swept under the rug).