University 'feminist' discussion group

[FeministFatale]

I've namechanged for this because some friends know my normal username. I'm affiliated to a university and I've been invited to a feminism discussion group.
The topic of the first session? The effects of the pandemic on women, trans rights and feminism. The section on trans rights includes some 'pre-reading' with a link to one blog (by a man, obviously) about the 'transphobia' that has fuelled the UK not bringing in self-ID. Not a link to this and say, Karen Ingala-Smith or even someone like Debbie Hayton who is trans but against self-ID for an opposing view. Needless to say, it is very one sided and doesn't even mention the reasons why feminists have campaigned for single sex spaces. In fact, it frames the people arguing against self-ID as anti-feminist, with a clear implication that anyone who rejects self-ID (whether because they don't believe TWAW or simply because they think it makes it too easy for male abusers to, you know, abuse) cannot be a feminist.
Arguing for protecting the rights of vulnerable women is being couched, in a university feminist reading group, as intrinsically unfeminist.
Question is, do I complain, or do I read with caution the message included in the invitation that 'any exclusionary behaviour towards LGBTQIA+' will not be tolerated. It's pretty clear that this discussion group does not, in fact, want a discussion at all.

Tweebree

'It's like in The Walking Dead. These people have been bitten already, there's nothing you can do. Save your strength for another fight.'

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂👏👏👏👏👏👏

It's very depressing that universities have become places where the pursuit of greater knowledge and deeper understanding have been subordinated to being nice, a phrase which now expresses only the most facile and insincere of sentiments.

I do think there are some things that don't need to be debated over and over, and can understand why groups might not want to give their limited time to, e.g. arguing that the Holocaust did indeed happen, or that women as a class are oppressed by the patriarchy etc, before they can get on with their discussion. Certain basic understanding has to be there to build on.

But acting like accepting TWAW in all circumstances and for all reasons and sex is no longer a fundamental aspect of women's oppression is not the same thing - it's clearly still unresolved.

@DeaconBoo

I do think there are some things that don't need to be debated over and over, and can understand why groups might not want to give their limited time to, e.g. arguing that the Holocaust did indeed happen, or that women as a class are oppressed by the patriarchy etc, before they can get on with their discussion. Certain basic understanding has to be there to build on.

But acting like accepting TWAW in all circumstances and for all reasons and sex is no longer a fundamental aspect of women's oppression is not the same thing - it's clearly still unresolved.

It seems this ‘feminist group’ could do with discussing how women are oppressed by the patriarchy - and how TWAW is just an extension of the patriarchy.

The topic of the first session? The effects of the pandemic on women, trans rights and feminism

Wow, what a major set of topics one session. I doubt you will get past the first bit, i.e. the effect of the pandemic on women. Maybe there will be time to squeeze in five minutes the end on the transwomen and feminism aspects.

Don't fall into the trap of centering men instead of women. Don't let time be taken away from women's issues to talk about other issues. Keep asking questions that have bugger all to do with trans and everything to do with women in the pandemic.

You could even preempt the discussion by sending the organisers a set of subtopics you recommend for discussion. Include hard hitting ones like the rise in murders of women during the pandemic, the risk of women going into prostitution due to loss of livelihood, how this disproportionally affects the north at present, front line care workers and teachers who are predominantly female being at high risk of covid exposure, when redundancies are necessary should men be laid off preferentially and women kept for men's own protection seeing as men are more at risk of dying from covid.

Relentlessly bring it back to those topics and hopefully get the conversation directed there by the organisers in the first place.

I wonder if there are any good articles out there on these topics that you could suggest they circulate?

They circulated some good, peer reviewed articles for the other sections. It is very possible they won't get past the first topic.

if so (assuming you go) you should give them plenty of positive reinforcement
'great that we are discussing stuff that has a real impact'
'fantastic that we are thinking about what matters to ordinary women'
'I really think women's safety is a central issue for feminists'
'of course, we can see clearly here how women's biology matters when we are thinking about oppression- employers are going to discriminate against people who might have babies, after all' (bit risky that last one)

@Greencoatblue

Given that this discussion group aren't going to discuss ( dictionary def: a conversation or debate about a specific topic ) but merely be an echo chamber of set ideas, I don't think I'd bother attending.

Just like Mumsnet then?

12frogsincoats feel free to start a thread on whatever topic you care to discuss with a summary of your position and argument in support of that position. No one is stopping you

@Aesopfable

12frogsincoats feel free to start a thread on whatever topic you care to discuss with a summary of your position and argument in support of that position. No one is stopping you

If you truly think I could post a pro-trans thread in FWR and not get shot down in flames, accused of being a troll or a man, or having my thread taken over by cake recipes, no matter how polite or respectful my post or how open I am to discussion, you clearly haven't been here very long.

12frogsincoats

Do tell. What pro trans feminist things have you got to share?

12frogs I have see threads that start pro-trans with arguments in support of their position which have been carefully and thoughtfully taken apart. Generally the poster either then slinks away or gradually realises their argument has no foundation. I have also seen rather more plopping on this board with no interest in discussion accusing women of all sorts, demanding explanations or telling them to do the work because they have no interest in looking up articles to support their own argument. Who cannot even define the principle terms of 'gender' or 'women' without using to the term being defined. Or who obviously have not read any threads on here before posting. Rightly women have no truck with that nonsense.

and not get shot down in flames

I rather think that depends on the strength of your arguments. FWR unashamedly centres women and girls.

@TweeBree

any exclusionary behaviour towards LGBTQIA+' will not be tolerated

It's like in The Walking Dead. These people have been bitten already, there's nothing you can do. Save your strength for another fight.

More applause for this perfect post

@Aesopfable

12frogsincoats feel free to start a thread on whatever topic you care to discuss with a summary of your position and argument in support of that position. No one is stopping you

The topic is always about what they think FWR is like. It's circular.