Refreshing opinion piece in Newsweek about transgender men in women’s sport

[CoffeeTeaChocolate]

www.newsweek.com/transgender-threat-womens-sports-opinion-1540418

Do we dare to hope it is going mainstream....?

Transgender women!!! I cannot even get the terminology right before a coffee. No wonder few people see this outside the FWR boards.

"whether to allow biological men into women's sports may be the silliest debate of our time"

yup

"Imagine a world without Flo-Jo, without Venus or Serena Williams, without modern-day Olympian runner Allyson Felix."

^ this.

As FPFW say:

The female sport category was invented to make sportinclusiveof women & girls. Opening the female category to malesexcludeswomen and girls.

If we want inclusive sport we must have categories

I am just so happy that this is in a fairly mainstream magazine. That there is some public opinions on this that aren’t woke

Newsweek commissioned two articles, one for and one against the idea of males competing in women's sports.

Here's the one in favour:
www.newsweek.com/transgender-athletes-do-not-threaten-womens-sports-opinion-1540409

It's by someone called Juliet Jacques. As ever image search is instructive.

It is free of any discussion of relevant differences between male and female bodies and is full of this:

• no one would transition just to succeed in women's sports
• transitioning is long, physically and psychologically grueling
• had HRT to put my testosterone and estrogen levels within a "normal female range,"
• When I did play, casually, with cis women, I found my advantages were not hormonal—I was less quick and less strong than many of my new teammates—but cultural. Having been raised male, I'd had far more coaching, having not been discouraged or excluded from soccer at a young age like some of them. Consequently, I had advantages in its less physical and more teachable aspects: passing, moving off the ball and shooting (translation: there's no unfairness, women only need to try harder)
• Caster Semenya

It's dismal. The people who commented see right through it.

Abigail Shrier on Twitter:

"I had planned to thank my co-debater, @zinovievletter, for engaging with me in this vital conversation - but I see that she has blocked me. How very 2020."

They know they have absolutely zero argument. And are on a hiding to nothing. Even though, it's cringeworthy the lengths they are still going to.

Having been raised male, I'd had far more coaching, having not been discouraged or excluded from soccer at a young age like some of them. Consequently, I had advantages in its less physical and more teachable aspects: passing, moving off the ball and shooting

When

"In the 100-meter, the 200-meter, the 400-meter and 800-meter races, the male high school players handily dominate the female Olympians, claiming all the top spots. Most significantly, as the website explains: "None of the women's finals performances met the qualifying time to enter the boys' competition."

Are they really trying to say that the reason high school boys will trounce Olympic sports women to the point of them not even qualifying, is because they have better coaching?

Sometimes your opinion of people can't actually get any lower.

Oh, oh, except maybe by the part where they actually use historical sexism against women, as a reason to further disadvantage them.

I had missed the juxtapositions articles

Datun, your post made a chilling sense to me. On this board, most agree that men have a biological advantage to women which on elite level simply cannot be overcome.

However, there is an additional advantage for men in terms of their early coaching.

My son was told from about 4/5 to “work harder”, “I have hopes for you “how could you be such an idiot as to mess that up”

My daughter was told until about 10/11 “brilliant effort”, “make sure that everyone gets to touch the ball”, etc.

There is sexism in grass-root level team sports in this country. This makes it even harder to excel as a woman. But this is in addition to the already existing physical disadvantage women have.

Juliet has pre-blocked me on twitter, and lots of other women. She must use a block list. I wonder if she knew her essay would be set beside another arguing the opposite? Presumably she did, so it's a good sign that she was willing to do it on that basis even though she keeps her social media 'pure'.

However, there is an additional advantage for men in terms of their early coaching.

100% true. My daughter (6) went out for soccer/football (sry USA) and they never played a game, mostly they played tag and kicked the ball around with no feedback.

Next field over 5/6 yo boys were playing every, single, day. Coaches giving instruction and correction.

There was a trans/NB identified female on The boys team. I guess that neatly demonstrates how Gender ID can (partly) rescue the individual from oppression - only requires you leave everyone Else of your sex behind.

Amazing, right this minute I'm watching Abigail's interview with Meghan Murphy! Love Abigail, I'm so grateful for voice on these issues.

Thanks for this.

I see that Abigail has a book which I have just ordered.

So many comments upthread are spot on.

Re. "it's social, not physical" - interestingly, my experience of learning football as a female adult (who then played a shed load of mixed 5-a-side) were (1) I could pick up the "thinking" aspects of the game - move into space, choose the right pass, think ahead to how the game was unfolding - very easily, and in fact seemed to have a good "football brain"; (2) I couldn't make up for the lack of early acquisition of certain motor skills - some ball skills eluded me no matter how much time I put into them in training; (3) notwithstanding 1 and 2, men just hit the ball a fuck of a lot harder, run faster and are built like bloody brick shithouses when you collide with them - because BIOLOGY.

Also totally agree about differences in male and female training. I remember a friend's mum (born about 1925 or thereabouts) once saying to me she'd been really good at tennis at school, but had been told off for being over-competitive as it wasn't ladylike. And yes, those attitudes still linger - as Lurker so eloquently explains. The best team I've come across for not making this mistake was my DS's rugby team (mixed up to age 11) where the girls and boys got exactly the same coaching and levels of encouragement.

I've wondered recently whether Juliet Jacques sometimes posts here. I used to enjoy her Guardian column on her transition.

If she does read this, I'd like to ask her to have a look at the Boys vs Women website and would love to know how she feels seeing the data visualised in that way?

I'd also remind her of the extreme lengths many have taken to excel in sport, including destroy their bodies with steroids. I too find it unlikely that many athletes will transition only to win, but even "genuine" transitioners have a uncompetitive advantage that could easily destroy women's sport even in low numbers.

My husband and I are similar age and build and both active. He is about 2 inches taller than me. I have no chance against him at anything sporty. Even a silly garden rugby-ish game where the (young) kids and I gang up to try and get a ball off him, the three of us together can barely do it.