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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Leeds Libraries Drag Story Hour (again)

79 replies

HDDD · 19/10/2020 17:43

"Exciting news – we are working with
@DragStoryHourUK
to bring you a FABULOUS family friendly storytime.
More details to follow. "
twitter.com/leedslibraries/status/1317815999660425219
I had a vague recollection of them planning one before, and a quick search tells me it was cancelled, due to pressure. Not sure what pressure, or how, and why they are now planning another.
I know they are contentious and I can't square the circle of why promoting difference and acceptance can only be done by drag queens. Also who pays for them?

OP posts:
MerchedCymru · 21/10/2020 23:51

We wrote to point out safeguarding issues and the strangely narrow notion of 'diversity' when the local health board organised a DQSH recently. They agreed eventually and the event was cancelled.

But it does make one wonder who exactly is pushing for children to watch sexualised and exaggerated stereotypes of women, and in what way that promotes actual diversity. Who actually benefits?

Leeds has more than its fair share of misogynists it seems. Anything they can do to show their contempt for women and they are there like a shot. Thank heaven for Leeds ReSisters and their supporters. But they have one helluva fight on their hands.

NiceGerbil · 22/10/2020 00:00

Why? I don't understand why?

It got cancelled/ postponed because of complaints.

There are a zillion inspirational people who could read stories.

Why go for this again when it's obviously contraversial?

It doesn't make sense.

Angryresister · 22/10/2020 00:23

Another day, another complaint made . After the last one which reached level two, I can’t wait for the meaningless drivel that will wend its way back justifying their wonderful diversity policies. LCC have really dug in over this. Why?

Angryresister · 23/10/2020 09:40

Here is the reply I received...
Thank you for your complaint dated 21 October. Your complaint has been logged at Stage 1 of our procedure and, as you know, allocated to me for investigation and response in line with our Complaints Policy.

In summary, my understanding of your complaint is:

• Drag queens do not fit the model of diversity and is therefore not a reason for engaging one for storytime; there are no sessions promoted with disabled people, lesbians or gay men;
• Social media of Aida H Dee and Drag Queen Story Time is unsavory, promotes other sites where paedophilia is promoted and is not appropriate for children.

Diversity

Leeds aims to be a welcoming and inclusive city

There are strong links between drag and LGBT+ culture, and part of our public sector equality duty is to have due regard to the need to eliminate discrimination. Drag is also about celebrating difference, not conforming to the ‘norms’ of society and saying that people can choose in what way they identify as individuals. It also challenges the idea that some clothing or ways of people presenting themselves are exclusively the preserve of one ‘sex’.

Leeds Libraries Service is constantly reviewing its plans and is working on a wider range of diversity projects including more storytime diversity. The service ensures that there is diversity in the stories and the authors amongst its book stock including for children and younger people.

Social media is unsavoury

There are some images on the DQST and from the performers other social media which could be viewed by some as being incompatible with our expectation of a children’s performer. They do not of themselves warrant refusing to work with this individual, and do not condone violence or paedophilia.

Moreover, we have assessed suitability in this case on the actual event being held. The event in question is pre-recorded and the added benefit of this is that the story time has already been viewed by colleagues in the Library Service who have confirmed its appropriateness for the intended audience and a full risk assessment has been undertaken with no safeguarding issues arising. It is for this reason why we are proceeding as planned.

The love has no age slogan, with an image, was used by Drag Queen Story Time. It is clear from the additional image that they do not support, condone or have anything to do with Minors Attracted Person. The slogan is one which is well known in some circles, and clearly has unacceptable connotations. However, it is not universally known, which is why ASDA also, at one time, used it as a strap line in an education pack.

Aida H Dee posted the image with the intention of recognising love seeing no boundaries, and had not sexualised this in any way, as others have seemingly done. The post was not intended to cause offence, or to promote paedophiles, and a secondary post confirmed this. The post was removed once it was highlighted that this slogan was linked to MAP.

There are other images which have been highlighted to Aida H Dee which have caused offence and I understand these have also been removed. These have been on Aida H Dee’s adult site which is restricted to over 14 year olds

In more general terms, it is not appropriate for the council to check a person’s social media accounts or ask them questions about their private life, as to do so might well be a disproportionate interference with the person’s right to private and family life under the Human Rights Act. It could also lead to a person being discriminated against because they had a protected characteristic. The DQST is a short one off supervised performance and checking a performer’s social media accounts could be seen as disproportionate. In addition, drag has strong associations with the LGBT+ community, and therefore more detailed checks for this individual than are conducted for other performers, would run the risk of a claim of discrimination by association or perception.

Conclusion

I have considered your complaint, looked at available information and discussed this further with colleagues in Safer Leeds, Communities, Children and Families, Libraries and Legal Services. In addition I have spoken to Aida H Dee.

I do not believe that we should be taking additional measures in relation to understanding the individual’s social media as that would be disproportionate and potentially discriminatory. However, given that social media concerns have been raised it is appropriate to consider these.

Having considered these, for the reasons outlined above, I see no reason why we should not engage this drag queen (who has safeguarding checks in place) to hold a library storytime for our children.

I believe that I have addressed the issues you have raised. If you wish to request a review of my decision, you can contact me directly or customer relations on the email address given above, within 28 days of this letter. However, please be aware that consideration will usually only be given to new facts or evidence, or to comments on the above facts or evidence which I have relied on as part of my investigation.

It would have been good if they had considered these issues when they closed down the women’s meeting last year.

Chrysanthemum5 · 23/10/2020 09:51

Are they seriously using the term 'minors attracted people' rather than paedophille? Is that part of Leeds diversity now?

RoyalCorgi · 23/10/2020 09:56

These have been on Aida H Dee’s adult site which is restricted to over 14 year olds

Oh, that's OK then.

What on earth is wrong with these people?

FairFridaythe13th · 23/10/2020 10:32

Because under 14 year olds would never ever try to access anything it age appropriate?

Angryresister · 23/10/2020 12:02

why did Asda remove their strapline i wonder ? !

FairFridaythe13th · 23/10/2020 12:13

What was Asda doing?

Angryresister · 23/10/2020 12:40

apparently used the love has no age slogan
but were challenged.

RoyalCorgi · 23/10/2020 12:42

We've said this before, but there are two questions you can ask Leeds to put to the drag queen: 1. Would you be prepared to read stories to children in your ordinary clothing, not drag? 2. Would you be prepared to read stories to the residents of old people's homes?

growinggreyer · 23/10/2020 12:45

So a massive failure in safeguarding is now being used as a defence?

Incidentally, who wrote this letter, Angryresister? They seem to put a lot of weight on their own judgement. I would be interested to know what level they are within the council and what safeguarding qualifications they hold.

FairFridaythe13th · 23/10/2020 12:48

I know female firefighters who go into schools to engage with for us and young women - not only to join the service but to demonstrate how women can follow their own dreams. The do it as a service they set up themselves, and not a business.

Surely they are an example of brilliant women role models to get in to read stories to little kids - some are mums, some aren’t, and they do engage with kids all the time (lots of station drop ins). Plus they have cool kit.

Angryresister · 23/10/2020 14:54

growinggreyer. She is in customer relations and directorate improver manager. Interesting to see that she has consulted with the legal dept among others. Leeds has been totally taken over by training from Stonewall it appears. Funny how when WPUK were cancelled discrimination against a protected group was not considered despite this being such a big part of their line. As far as I know drag queens are not a protected characteristic...

IAmNotAGirl · 23/10/2020 15:41

Interesting deletion my post at the top of page 2 was answering someone who was querying what the library and performer got out of the arrangement and commenting that there seemed to be an £80 fee involved when initially it was free and that the email in the FOI showed how persistent they were.

I don't recall anything untoward about their post but because it was deleted my post was also deleted.

Are we not allowed to identify that the person promoting DQST is clearly running this to make money?

That they are using sales techniques to hook libraries in offering a free performance which is actually pre recorded and can then be used by multiple libraries. That once they have some libraries in agreement it is easier to promote to others by saying these other libraries have signed up.

Is there any reason why we can't discuss this? It's just recognising that DQST isn't altruistic for LGBT people it's a business opportunity. They are selling a service using a freebie as a hook.

IAmNotAGirl · 23/10/2020 15:44

As that posted it occurred to me to wonder what the rules on buying services are in the public sector? At what point does it have to go out to tender? Is that expenditure based or type of service?

I don't work in the public sector so I don't know.

Fajitanita · 23/10/2020 15:48

it is not appropriate for the council to check a person’s social media accounts or ask them questions about their private life, as to do so might well be a disproportionate interference with the person’s right to private and family life under the Human Rights Act.

Wtf

FairFridaythe13th · 23/10/2020 15:50

A background check is absolutely appropriate in this instance - assuming they don’t have a DRB (would they even need if interacting online?).

Social media is just that - social. Don’t want it ‘out there?’ don’t put it ‘out there’.

Angryresister · 23/10/2020 15:59

Has a FOI been done for the complaints received. In those emails there was both the implication that there would be negative comments, but also that none had been received, which is untrue.

IAmNotAGirl · 23/10/2020 16:12

@Angryresister

Has a FOI been done for the complaints received. In those emails there was both the implication that there would be negative comments, but also that none had been received, which is untrue.
It doesn't look like another FOI has been done.
ArabellaScott · 23/10/2020 16:16

a full risk assessment has been undertaken

Is this available to see?

FairFridaythe13th · 23/10/2020 16:27

Id like to see what form that took.

Is - it - safe...?
Yes yes YEEESSSSSS

NRatched · 23/10/2020 19:37

These have been on Aida H Dee’s adult site which is restricted to over 14 year olds

Adult site, for 14 year olds. Thats quite concerning in itself to me tbh. 14 is not an adult.

dumpling23 · 23/10/2020 19:41

I really don't see the harm.
I'd happily take my child to one of these, no different to panto dressing up really.
Are we supposed to get our knickers in a twist about the ugly sisters as well now?

Hi Ktp100. Panto and drag both involve men dressing as women, but that doesn't mean they are the same thing. Drag is conceived as adult entertainment, and - unlike panto - relies heavily on sexual innuendo and erotic suggestion. Unlike panto, it's sexualised entertainment aimed at adults. That's why some of us are raising questions. Why introduce pre-pubescent children to age-inappropriate sexual content? And what is the motivation of adult performers seeking to insert themselves into a space for children as opposed to the sexually-aware adult audience they usually perform for?

NiceGerbil · 24/10/2020 02:44

I don't like panto either. Grew up in the 70s/80s and men dressing up as women for laughs was everywhere. I always felt uncomfy with it even when I was a kid.

I just can't get on board with men dressing up as caricatures of women whatever it's called.

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