Guardian Article about lifelike sex dolls

[MyOwnSummer]

www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2020/oct/19/what-i-learned-about-male-desire-in-a-sex-doll-factory

This is a tough read, although I'm struggling to articulate exactly why over the feelings of nausea. It is very, very creepy indeed and requires quite a strong stomach.

The writer does decry the sexist attitudes on "doll forums" but sadly includes a lot of absolute bollocks about the reasons why men might want these horrible creations. There's too much focus on female sexual satisfaction these days, apparently, the poor menz aren't confident to ask for what they want in bed any more (!?).

The dolls are now being programmed, like Alexa, to respond to their creators - from the article...

"Her long-lashed eyes blinked audibly. “Good morning, how can I help you, my sweet Matt?” she asked, glossed lips parting and closing with a mechanical whir. She tilted her head to the side, as if thoughtfully anticipating his response. McMullen asked her the time and she told him with a slight smile.

When he thanked her, she replied, “Sure, I was created to please you.”

Anyone else find this highly disturbing? Men who can't cope with women being people, retreating into a fantasy whereby the doll fulfils all their "needs"?

To be fair to the author, she does talk about incel culture and call this out explicitly - "there is no reckoning with this industry without acknowledging that, for some owners, dolls are a surrogate for dominance."

my sweet Matt?

Have they been programmed to replicate characters from the works of Barbara Cartland?

I'm not sure whether these are any more disturbing than other kinds of porn. If men are having that type of dominance fantasy, which the type who'd buy a doll probably is, does the existence of a doll make any difference?

The article doesn't mention the child-size dolls that are also being manufactured and sold. I realise that this particular factory may not be responsible for the child sex dolls, but still surprised the reporter didn't mention them. I wonder why?

I'm surprised it's legal to make or sell child-sized dolls. If it is, it shouldn't be.

Is there any research on the effects of these on men's behaviour and attitudes? As with porn, I guess people would argue "outlet" (so more disturbing/objectifying behaviours aren't played out in reality). But as with porn, I'd guess the effects on "real-life" behaviour won't be pretty....

I find it disturbing in a very visceral way and child dolls are an absolute abomination. It's disturbing because it's taking a peek inside men's minds and being shocked at what lies therein.

Like porn, it shows what some men secretly want when it comes to sex (and sometimes for relationships as a whole sadly) and women's autonomy and humanity don't feature - except as things to crush for the dominance thrill.

I bet they program the dolls to say 'Ow' and that will tell me everything I need to know about some men's psyches.

I think women have judged men by our own psyches and sexual standards for too long and it is a massive miscalculation by us because it is far too kindly. We really, really need to acknowledge what I swear it was Philip Larkin said (but have never found the quote since):

"If women knew what went on in men's minds, they wouldn't go near us".

Well they're bloody showing us now, aren't they?! Yet still we love them and brush it under the carpet. They need shaming or there will be no end to it all.

Technology, driven by men, is pandering to men's sex drives and causing women harm. It's not new, it's just the latest chapter of horror in the sex wars.

I don't buy the argument that if men are taking it out on robots, they won't do it in real life. That's what people used to say about porn. Now look at the fetishised violent sex women are supposed to put up with as the new normal. Porn is the manual and all that. Same will go for the robots.

I came across a sex doll seller on Etsy, which also sold male dolls for women. Looking at it creeped me out on a fundamental level because it's this cold dead human-like thing. It would be like having sex with a corpse. If a man manage to enjoy these...it says a lot of negative things about him.

It makes me think of those with a fetish for uncouncious partners, necrophilia, serial killers.

Stepford Wives.

Really sex and doll shouldn't be in the same sentence.

Dolls are for kids.
Sex is for adults.

But then I suppose you could say the same for sex toys. Ultimately dolls and toys are inanimate objects. Of course it's creepy to try to replicate something that is alive in an object, especially when it comes to humans, sex and it's absolutely fucking vile that that have child sex dolls (I've seen the adverts, they conveniently fit inside a suitcase, nope nothing to see here...)

I've seen the arguments that this will mean women don't have to become prostitutes and that it protects children from abuse but it's absolute guff, as we all know. This is a result of porn and fetish and it's hardly died out with over exposure has it?

If the tech industry wants to support, develop and promote this, then you have to look at the motives which I expect will be money, God complex and porn-addled minds.

I came across a sex doll seller on Etsy, which also sold male dolls for women

I'd bet most of those are sold to gay men.

I don't think I have a problem with these. If they're kept private then it's nothing to do with me. Plenty of women use sex toys.

This male psychologist said: "many straight men fantasize about women who seem “to exist primarily to sexually service men and derive tremendous pleasure themselves from the effort to do so”. Bader argues that these fantasies arouse men not because they facilitate misogyny but because they allow men to counter pervasive beliefs, “for example, that women don’t enjoy sex, don’t enjoy pleasing men, and easily feel disappointed or hurt by men pursuing their own interests”.

Um, so men have misogynist beliefs about women, but they aren't aroused by misogyny? Right...

I also hated the whole schtick about the poor widows buying sex dolls that look like their wives (gross), and the narrative that the poor sweet men just want to hold hands and cuddle. Men control the porn industry - I'm sure that if men wanted depictions of cuddling and hand holding it would be everywhere. And this raises the question of why men feel the need to hold hands and cuddle a doll? I think they like the control, the fact their 'partner' never talks or demands anything or says no.

This stuff makes me so angry.

I hate it that there is a subset of men who see women purely as objects for their (sexual) pleasure and service: to be looked at, to be fantasized about, to be touched and pawed at and penetrated. To fawn and simper and flatter the ego. And of course to clean up the messes and put dinner on the table and scrub the toilet.

Although robot sex maidens is at the extreme end of this spectrum, the same attitude filters down into so much popular culture. So much of women's clothing, women's make-up, women's underwear isn't about the experience of the woman that uses it, but what it looks like for the man that looks at her. Similarly in entertainment, so many sex scenes are tailored to the male gaze; so many female characters are written from a male perspective for a male viewer; so much dancing is about looking sexy for a male audience. And not much of any of this pays any attention to the experience of women as fully autonomous, fully living human beings. We're a collection of body parts, whose functions can be replicated by a sex bot. Ffs.

@aliasundercover

I came across a sex doll seller on Etsy, which also sold male dolls for women

I'd bet most of those are sold to gay men.

I don't think I have a problem with these. If they're kept private then it's nothing to do with me. Plenty of women use sex toys.

I also bet that most of those are sold to gay men. Men are the ones prone to objectifying others while women don't in the same way and so are more likely to be creeped out by a doll. Dolls are different from toys that just stimulate your sexual organ. They are like entire plastic person.

I bet the men who own them treat them better than they treat women - after all they are not cheap and I guess you have to pay to get them mended if you treat them too roughly.

Part of me would like to think "Great! Let these sad weirdoes select themselves out of the gene/dating pool"

But as others have suggested, odds are this will shift the goalpost of these men's (already pretty twisted) expectations when dealing with real life women.

I attended an online conference about these 'dolls' and it was so disturbing esp. - as some have mentioned above - the child sex abuse dolls.

At least there is a campaign against these things: campaignagainstsexrobots.org/about/ (the conf I mention was organised by this organisation).

@DrGachet

The article doesn't mention the child-size dolls that are also being manufactured and sold. I realise that this particular factory may not be responsible for the child sex dolls, but still surprised the reporter didn't mention them. I wonder why?

Exactly! I saw a documentary that showed the child dolls and I found it quite disturbing. Ok maybe be it could be a warped 'outlet' for their perversion that prevents actual child abuse but it's wrong and vile. As you say, it may not be the same factory but yes, why has this been avoided?

I’ve never heard of there being child sized dolls. How accepting of this shit have we become that men are ok to openly buy them?

I wish I’d never clicked the thread, I feel sick

Aesopfable

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/metro.co.uk/2017/09/27/men-at-tech-fair-molest-3000-sex-robot-so-much-its-left-broken-and-heavily-soiled-6960778/amp/

This happened but I think you’re right, if they were paying for it themselves it might be different.

AFAIK it is illegal to buy, sell or import child-like sex dolls into this country. (Just typing that made me want to barf.)

I remember an article of a similar kind a few years ago where someone tried to open a "sex doll brothel" where sad inadequate wankers could hire them by the hour. He commented how many of the dolls got damaged/broken by the punters.

There are some very scary, disturbed men out there.

Cross post with IDaniel.

I guess you have to pay to get them mended if you treat them too roughly.

I also remember reading about a man who fixed the dolls after they were ripped apart.

What a job.

There’s something very worrying but it’s hard to put a finger on exactly what it is.

It is something that looks like a woman but does not react like one.

Porn has already changed how some men view women. This has the potential to be worse. If he’s choking her with one hand and mashing her breasts with the other whilst she moans in apparent pleasure, what will that do to his brain?

My ex would openly admit that making me orgasm or doing anything other than PIV was a chore, and he asked if making me orgasm could be something we did on special occasions only. I remember thinking to myself back then that he should get himself one of these dolls. He would probably love it.

Just Awful.

Has anyone read Z by Joanna Kavannah? It has quite a lot on this.