Shout out to the Economist

[EdgeOfACoin]

I think you need to register to see the article.

However, I have noticed the Economist picking up on the issue of transgender athletes in sports recently. I've been pleased with the coverage - gives the case for both sides, but ultimately lets the science speak for itself.

This is the latest (if you can read it):

www.economist.com/science-and-technology/2020/10/17/a-ban-by-world-rugby-could-prove-influential-for-transgender-sports

Can’t see the article but I am quite happy to support transgender sports and think that is a good thing for them to campaign for - and leave women’s sports alone.

Here's an archived version of the article for those who can't access it via The Economist website: archive.is/IBqrD

Trans sports seem the logical answer to me here, if some men who do not class themselves as men do not want to play with men. Its unfair, and unsafe for them to play with women. So..

This would also go for transmen. Though the fairness to men argument doesn't stand at all, in stuff like rugby, I would say its dangerous for a transman to play against a team of men tbh, no matter what their 'testosterone level' is. Some other sports, safety of the transman would not be questioned really, fairness would still be a issue but if they wat to put themselves at a disadvantage, I guess thats up to them.

It would actually be quite interesting in a way, to see which bears out, testosterone level, or male puberty advantage. I suspect the second, but maybe it would be more equal?

Mind no, mixed sex rugby is still that if its transwomen and transmen. I had a total 360 seconds after posting that.

For some sports, non contact it would be interesting

I have no desire, ever to see adult males play rugby/MMA/contact sport against adult females.

This is the first time I've seen the issue discussed in an honest manner, representing the facts clearly and succinctly. They say that Harper's study only included 8 people without proper controls and the intervals were varied so decline with age wasn't accounted for.

Very well done.

I'm gobsmacked. 8 people with a flawed basis and the Olympics said we'll allow anything for that. You could present a flawed report on the advantages of all this modern type of doping and say they don't really advantage people. Would IOC say we can't ban people who use them with out convincing research they give advantages. They would in their X.

In a mainstream publication, I mean.

[quote UtopiaPlanitia]Here's an archived version of the article for those who can't access it via The Economist website: archive.is/IBqrD[/quote]
Thank you, @UtopiaPlanitia.

I'm not sure how to archive stuff - I ought to learn!

@Cailleach1 - yes, I was really glad it included the critique of Harper's study.

That's a really good article on the subject.

Good to see data from boysvswomen.com being referenced too.

I think this debate has a good way to go but the arguments for fairness and safety certainly fall heavily on the side of biology. I worry that the US might move ahead with transgender laws that make it impossible for fairness to be argued. Where the US goes in sport, the rest follow.

"The weakest, smallest males could shift 10% more weight than the biggest, strongest females. The strongest male players could lift over 60% more."

Shocker.

They covered this an episode of in their excellent daily podcast last week, too.

www.economist.com/podcasts/2020/10/14/were-seeing-a-level-of-muscle-flexing-by-china-unprecedented-in-20-years-taiwan-under-threat

Helen Joyce was business editor at The Economist and is full-on GC and writing a book about it. Writers for and readers of The Economist pride themselves on rationality, accuracy and research and data-driven content. So it's one of the last publications likely to fall to emotional blackmail and threats. In the first few minutes of this interview Helen Joyce talks matter-of-factly about how transgender ideology and its insistence that sex doesn't matter doesn't compute if you apply basic scientific principles and analysis to it — which is why No Debate, of course:

The video starts with a strange video of a cat stalking a mouse, but don't be put off — it's a really good introduction to the whole subject and a good one for forwarding to contacts. Helen Joyce has a way of cutting through the whole emotional thing and calling it out for the flawed thinking it is.