A chilling vision of the future if the concept of 'hate crime' is not abolished, from Caroline ffiske

[TheFleegleHasLanded]

www.thearticle.com/dont-reform-hate-crime-abolish-it

"Let’s think what the future might hold. You have a police record for something you said about “asexuals”. I have a police record because I know that biological sex is binary and immutable. Women’s single sex spaces no longer exist, because women were unable to campaign for them, because when they opened their mouths to do so they were accused of hate. Women repeated endlessly that they were not being transphobic in wanting to argue that sex matters. But they were out-manuoevred. Gender also became a protected characteristic. Now when women mentioned biological sex they were accused of being “genderist”; they were accused of “hate”. Debate dried up and the fight for single sex spaces was lost. Women tended to stay at home more.

Let us not go gently into this dark night. Rage rage against the dying of the light. Tell the Law Commission what you think here."

Stonewall tweets “If… the Government doesn’t move forward with real GRA [Gender Reform Act] reform it will be a bitter blow for trans people. But what hasn’t changed is trans people’s legal right to access single-sex spaces in line with the gender they identify with”. That’s the debate in a tweet.

That is a lie.

Trans people, even with a GRC, can be excluded from single sex spaces if there is good reason to do so.

This is why I'm unsure that misogyny should be made a hate crime. I know some feminists have wanted this since long before the whole trans debate but IMO it just opens the floodgates. In reality, the main hate crimes that will be focused on will be things like misgendering and using the wrong pronouns.

I suspect for most it is a case of if we must have hate crime then it must include misogyny to given a level playing field. Rather than clear support for hate crime.

Yes that's certainly my position, Aesop.

The fact that Stonewall are getting involved with the campaign for misogyny as a hate crime should be a massive red flag for all women.

Their intention is obvious, they want misogyny based on gender identity and not sex which will lead to women and girls being charged with 'misogynistic hate crime' against male people for recognising they are male people.

Unless misogyny = crime against human females then it's not worth having.

I don’t want any “hate crime” legislation at all. It’s all fully covered under existing laws against threatening behaviour, assault, breach of the peace, etc.
By dragging people’s beliefs and prejudices into it, you are paving the way for “wrong think” and “thought crime”, and an Orwellian dystopia where all dissent is silenced. Women have most to lose from this.

Their intention is obvious, they want misogyny based on gender identity and not sex which will lead to women and girls being charged with 'misogynistic hate crime' against male people for recognising they are male people.

But they will be able to do that under 'transgender hate crime' anyway. However I agree that misogyny must be based on sex. Gender is misogyny

Their intention is obvious, they want misogyny based on gender identity and not sex which will lead to women and girls being charged with 'misogynistic hate crime' against male people for recognising they are male people.

Plus having a definition in law which includes MTF trans people as "women", undermining the already shaky definition in the Equality Act (in terms of interpretation)

Plus having a definition in law which includes MTF trans people as "women", undermining the already shaky definition in the Equality Act (in terms of interpretation)
Exactly it is an attempt to shrink the status of sex and misogyny. It's the same with MRAs who are working hard to have rape redefined so women can be accused and prosecuted. It's a premeditated attack on women as a distinct group.

We have to sever the ties between sex and gender. Sex is like race a biological, immutable reality. Gender is a belief system and stands with spiritualism etc and non belief. It protects the right to believe in gender identity and the right to say it's a load of rubbish.

I think he reasob stonewa have becone involved in misogyny is aptly demonstrated by that Stella Creasy workshop - they are desparate to exclude female voices and by positioning themselves this way they can continue to ensure that women's groups are still not heard. Look at what happened to the groups who tried to get involved in that.

I agree with Babdoc. I feel that they are waving misogyny hate crime as a sop to pretend they care about women - if it's brought in it'll be gender based and only make things worse for women, not better. The police don't listen to women as it is, they're not going to start now. (Not All Police Are Like That, I am talking institutionally)

We have to sever the ties between sex and gender. Sex is like race a biological, immutable reality. Gender is a belief system and stands with spiritualism etc and non belief. It protects the right to believe in gender identity and the right to say it's a load of rubbish.

YY.

The police don't listen to women as it is, they're not going to start now.

See Devon and Cornwall's view on women's single sex spaces in terms of hate crime, as illustrated by their ridiculous and much mocked fruit and vegetable campaign yesterday.

https://twitter.com/WeAreFairCop/status/1316110046263234562

Related thread www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4050110-Police-in-Devon-crack-down-on-Hate-Crime-against-Tomatoes

Sex is like race a biological, immutable reality. Gender is a belief system and stands with spiritualism etc and non belief

The latter part of this is completely correct, but I don't know if sex is to race is a good analogy - race can be mixed, to varying degrees - as far as I understand, it really could be described as a spectrum. Sex is bimodal, only.

Good article. I've completed the consultation (took forever). You don't have to answer all the questions but I do think it's worth answering at least some. There is lots of opportunity to expand on your views.

I don't think there should be hate crime legislation at all. It's all too subjective. If someone commits a crime, that should be prosecuted, no matter who the individuals concerned are or what different characteristics they have.

I'm really talking about Hate Crimes, race is relevant because although it doesn't really exist, skin colour / amount of melanin which is the marker which underpins racism is genetic and can't be changed. Nobody becomes white if they're born black. Nobody is really black although they are born white.