WPATH and the Tavi

[MaudTheInvincible]

After the recent court hearing of Keira Bell's case about the quality of the care she received from the Tavi, I think this is interesting twitter.com/ZaneEmma/status/1315877083633995776?s=20

Likewise the open letter to the Tavi's Polly Carmichael linked here by its author twitter.com/seja_bondoso/status/1314157711593005062?s=20 or medium.com/@kirstyentwistle/an-open-letter-to-dr-polly-carmichael-from-a-former-gids-clinician-53c541276b8d for those who dislike twitter.

Actually, I think the open letter is breathtaking in its clarity. I don't know if PC or the Tavi responded, does anyone know?

Why do these organisations insist on treating trans patients without any evidence that what they're doing is likely to be beneficial? It's abhorrent.

yeah, the 7th version of the WPATH SOC deleted the requirement for therapy. Experts in WPATH were shouted down by political activists with no medical expertise. trans clinics got more and more staff with little ongoing experience with the mentally ill and they followed the affirmation only model, whilst lobbyists shouted down anyone calling for therapy

Wow, that letter

Many of these young people talk about feeling as though they have been in a cult and that they did not have access to any information or responses other than the affirmative approach.

I shouldn't be surprised or shocked, but I still am left speechless by the sheer lack of robust research and evidence in this area.

I know, FindTheTruth. It's quite something. I hadn't read it until it came my way on twitter last night. Given what we heard about the Tavi's lack of evidence last week, how they plan to blame parents if problems arise, and how they claimed to work to WPATH's guidance without fail, it seems like a massive negligence claim is on the way.

I have some questions relating to the law.

If there is no evidence to support a protocol, is it experimental?
If you are performing an experimental procedure, what standards do you have to meet? Do the subjects have to be informed its an experiment? Can children consent?

EXPERT AFFIDAVIT OF DR. STEPHEN B. LEVINE, M.D.

www.will-law.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/affidavit-stephen-levine-with-exhibit.pdf

pages and pages of hard evidence.

He was an early member of the Harry Benjamin International Gender Dysphoria Association (later known as WPATH), then served as the
Chairman of the Standards of Care Committee, then Co-Director, then resigned in 2002 ^due to my regretful conclusion that the
organization and its recommendations had become dominated by politics and ideology, rather than by scientific process, as it was years earlier.^

I work in evidence-based health research. The content of that letter is absolutely shocking. And it's from over a year ago! This is, or should be, a massive health scandal.

These poor kids, especially the girls, who seem to gain no benefit from the use of puberty blockers except for potentially having less breast tissue to remove if they go on to have a mastectomy in the future.

Thanks for the link re the expert witness. I'll have to brace myself and read it.

I want to know if the judges of Keira's case had anything like that letter from ex-Tavi clinicians in their bundles of evidence? I do not see how that kind of testimony can be ignored.

@MaudTheInvincible

I want to know if the judges of Keira's case had anything like that letter from ex-Tavi clinicians in their bundles of evidence? I do not see how that kind of testimony can be ignored.

I don't know if they had that specifically, but I know they had a huge evidence bundle.

And that gender critical feminists know how to present evidence carefully and methodically. The TRAs don't seem to. Even those who work in a clinical setting, it would appear.

Keira's barrister was allowed to speak for 2.5 hours uninterrupted as he backed up everything he said. The defendant's barristers were interrupted by the judges multiple times, asking them to provide evidence for what they said. I wasn't in court, but from reports from court it sounds like they really didn't have much in the way of clinical evidence to back up what they were saying.

I want to know if the judges of Keira's case had anything like that letter from ex-Tavi clinicians in their bundles of evidence

Yes they did. Kirsty Entwhistle, who wrote that open letter is named as a witness against GIDS in this newsnight report:

Her interview is 5 minutes in.

Place marking

Keira's barrister was allowed to speak for 2.5 hours uninterrupted as he backed up everything he said. The defendant's barristers were interrupted by the judges multiple times, asking them to provide evidence for what they said

Good point @movingmuddle - I was following the trial closely too and didn't realise it, but you're absolutely right there were many questions from the judges to TAVI - some of the exchanges would be funny if it weren't so serious. Many questions about data and follow-up. watching Dr Heather Brunskell-Evans, who was at the trial, says Tavi argue that Kira Bell is an anomaly and kids are happy, yet they do no follow-up from the start, no follow-up. the evidence that the QC of the tavistock provided was like being dragged into an alice in wonderland world going down the rabbit hole and it's difficult to convey that to people

I wish I could say I was surprised. But I'm not. I'm just angry. And heartbroken over what we are doing to children. Based on what....clearly nothing...

Thinking about it could this be used should the verdict rule against keira?

I mean tvus evidence based approach they all claimed they were using has jusy been confirmed as not evidence, is it proof enough that A) they have all been deliberately misleading their clients/patients
B) their case has been confirmed as being lies
C) that should the ruling go the wrong way it would surely now indicate that those placed to make it are operating under other intentions than upholding nest medical practice

When do we hear the ruling?