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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Oxford students and alumni protest transphobia

53 replies

lionheart · 11/10/2020 10:57

www.oxfordstudent.com/2020/10/09/students-call-for-university-action-against-transphobic-professors/

'More than 500 students and alumni at Oxford have come together to sign an open letter condemning “two professors with a history of transphobia”.

The letter expresses disappointment and distress over the controversial appointment of professors Selina Todd and Senia Paseta to lead a new programme on Women’s Equality and Inequality at the Oxford Martin School. Accusing the Martin School of ‘tacitly sanction(ing)’ the views of Professor Todd and Professor Paseta, the signatories raises concerns about a “hostile and exclusionary environment”.'

OP posts:
ListeningQuietly · 11/10/2020 16:55

traditional gender roles = 1950's misogyny
fear of - nope not scared, just want them to fit in not trample
hatred - unless they become MPs I'll not hate them
mistrust - its less the actual transgender people I mistrust than their vicious intolerant cheerleaders

Cocothefirst · 11/10/2020 16:57

FFS.

ThePonderer · 11/10/2020 17:12

Since there are many GC women whose "gender expression doesn’t conform to traditional gender roles” does that mean that it might potentially be transphobic to bully them???

RatherBeReading · 11/10/2020 17:14

The letter is of course enraging but even more so is the culture of pushing this agenda on young people amidst what should be a bastion of interrogative thought. My daughter's an Oxford undergrad and it is constant, from the "womxn's rep" on her college JCR, to welfare meetings beginning with an exchange of pronouns.
Lots of people - especially male students - go along with it in bemusement, or with some eye rolling, she observes, but others (particularly those involved in left wing politics and self-proclaimed feminist activism) push it very hard. Her subject is one where women's issues come up a lot so she can point out the lunacy in 1:1 tutorials sometimes, but amongst other students she feels the need to be very careful. She notes that its the only thing where even questions aren't allowed at JCR meetings - debate and discussion happens over every single other issue but questions = terfiness apparently. ("No debate" is the only option when defending an argument with so many holes in it.)

AllTheUsernamesAreAlreadyTaken · 11/10/2020 17:32

@RatherBeReading

The letter is of course enraging but even more so is the culture of pushing this agenda on young people amidst what should be a bastion of interrogative thought. My daughter's an Oxford undergrad and it is constant, from the "womxn's rep" on her college JCR, to welfare meetings beginning with an exchange of pronouns. Lots of people - especially male students - go along with it in bemusement, or with some eye rolling, she observes, but others (particularly those involved in left wing politics and self-proclaimed feminist activism) push it very hard. Her subject is one where women's issues come up a lot so she can point out the lunacy in 1:1 tutorials sometimes, but amongst other students she feels the need to be very careful. She notes that its the only thing where even questions aren't allowed at JCR meetings - debate and discussion happens over every single other issue but questions = terfiness apparently. ("No debate" is the only option when defending an argument with so many holes in it.)
Thank goodness she's managing to keep a level head. It must be terrifying to be so deep in that territory when you have "wrong think". She's doing the right thing to tread lightly. She's brave and admirable.
ThePonderer · 11/10/2020 17:37

The letter is of course enraging but even more so is the culture of pushing this agenda on young people amidst what should be a bastion of interrogative thought.

This.

I often think about abortion debates I attended when I was a student. At the most polarised ends of the debate, one side is accusing the other of murdering babies or of butchering women. And yet we did manage some basic civility, we did continue to discuss and consider the various points which were being made. And this would have been with an audience who could well have been 'triggered' by the subject.

There was a genuine attempt to work through the complexities of the situation, and at the very least an acknowledgement that some rights might come into conflict with some other rights.

Why is something similar never possible with trans rights?

Skyliner001 · 11/10/2020 17:42

Good to hear the students are making a stand. Thanks for the link, will share 😊

Annasgirl · 11/10/2020 18:01

@ItsAllGoingToBeFine

The students who signed that letter should be kicked out for their lack of critical thinking ability.
This is so true. How on earth did they ever pass an interview? Or do they interview?
terryleather · 11/10/2020 18:22

@ThePonderer

Another article by this same student: www.theoxfordblue.co.uk/2020/09/28/this-week-in-transphobia-oxford-does-it-again/

It includes a definition of transphobia - unusual in itself - “Transphobia is the fear, hatred, disbelief , or mistrust of people who are transgender, thought to be transgender, or whose gender expression doesn’t conform to traditional gender roles”.

Your belief/disbelief/thoughts will be policed. It's interesting to see this stated openly.

That doesn't surprise me in the slightest ThePonderer

I found this on Stonewall's website a while back, from their glossary of terms...

Oxford students and alumni protest transphobia
RozWatching · 11/10/2020 18:57

@GivesNoFox

To no ones shock Keinath-Esmail who created the open letter is a male born individual with a breast fetish:

twitter.com/yatakalam/status/1314651669616111618

These people are all cookie cutter misogynists.

Complains about "misgendering" "I wear breast forms, which means that physically I pass as a woman"

Really, that's all it takes to be a woman, fake breasts? Did this person have any contact with the real world before they came to Oxford?

FairFriday · 11/10/2020 19:01

So these kids have interviews and references to go to one top universities in the world? These are the brightest and best? Or are the colleges too scared to not give a place to someone who would kick up a holy stink?

MissMarplesGlove · 11/10/2020 19:12

'professors with a history of transphobic views (as defined by Trans Actual UK) not be given student-facing roles

I know a lot of academics who'd sign up for that. No marking, no badgering emails requiring a tutorial half an hour before the essay deadline, loads of research time ...

MissMarplesGlove · 11/10/2020 19:13

Professor Todd is not a transphobe; she simply has the temerity to research women, and argue that (from her extensive archival research with evidence ) that women as a class are oppressed, and that one of the reasons for this is women's biological reality.

The students protesting this appointment hate women, clearly.

ListeningQuietly · 11/10/2020 19:18

I recently posted a very GC video on FB
my dear transwoman friend liked it
because she sees the danger in the overreach by the TRAs

note that most TRAs
are enabling women
or misogynist men
but not actually transexuals who want to change who they are and live quietly
I wonder why ....

Tanith · 11/10/2020 19:38

"Do the students at Cambridge get up to this sort of nonsense too?"

Some try. The last incident I was reliably informed about saw the rest of the college furiously condemning their antics because it disturbed their studying.

I do believe many students in our universities, including Oxford, are getting sick and tired of gender politics.

notyourhandmaid · 11/10/2020 19:50

The inclusion of 'thoughts' in the definition of 'transphobia' is the only possible way 'transphobia' can exist in the world the way TRAs claim it does.

I despair.

Goosefoot · 11/10/2020 20:25

@RatherBeReading

The letter is of course enraging but even more so is the culture of pushing this agenda on young people amidst what should be a bastion of interrogative thought. My daughter's an Oxford undergrad and it is constant, from the "womxn's rep" on her college JCR, to welfare meetings beginning with an exchange of pronouns. Lots of people - especially male students - go along with it in bemusement, or with some eye rolling, she observes, but others (particularly those involved in left wing politics and self-proclaimed feminist activism) push it very hard. Her subject is one where women's issues come up a lot so she can point out the lunacy in 1:1 tutorials sometimes, but amongst other students she feels the need to be very careful. She notes that its the only thing where even questions aren't allowed at JCR meetings - debate and discussion happens over every single other issue but questions = terfiness apparently. ("No debate" is the only option when defending an argument with so many holes in it.)
It's much like this at my university as well, although equally it's racial issues. There is not a society, a meeting, a theatre production, a project by the university, a special summer program, anything, where there isn't a focus on one of about three SJ issues, and only one perspective allowed of course.

It's as if they decided climate change was the only issue, so every class talks about it, only student plays about it are allowed to be produced, every book is discussed in light of it, ever speaker invited says something about it, and every new project or endeavour related to it.

You'd get sick of it pretty quickly and not care even when it was relevant. IT reminds me of the way my 13 year old daughter tries to wear me down on topics.

MissMarplesGlove · 11/10/2020 20:38

And yet, I have a bulging seminar (with a waiting list) to study women's history. That is heartening: that there is a group of (mainly) young women who realise they've been shortchanged of their own history.

Little points of light!

dumpling23 · 11/10/2020 20:47

It does seem to be a particular problem at Oxford, where (on average) they have very wealthy and privileged students.

At the Uni where I teach - founded in the 1960s - we have very different students. 90% come from comps and many have no family background of higher ed. And honestly - the great majority of our students don't give a flying f about woke politics, gender identity, or pronouns. It just doesn't arise. Sure - there might be some involved in the SU banging on about it, but the kids in my actual classroom. They just don't care.

These kinds of concerns do appear to be a manifestation of privilege. If you don't mix and work with privileged people - you just don't meet anyone who think these things matter.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 11/10/2020 21:08

("No debate" is the only option when defending an argument with so many holes in it.)

That is it in a nutshell and it's why they're so threatened by dissenters.

ArabellaScott · 11/10/2020 21:47

I wonder if the class/privilege thing isn't a bigger part of the whole issue than I'd first thought.

Here TRAs bang on about 'upper class ter*s', yet turn out to be incredibly wealthy & privileged themselves.

cherwell.org/2019/10/18/police-call-for-witnesses-over-transphobic-stickers/

Is some of this defensive denial - people scrambling to try and prove themselves oppressed?

ArabellaScott · 11/10/2020 21:48

dumpling, I wrote this a couple of hours ago, then put the kids to bed, and I see you've said exactly what I was aiming at!

HeyBells · 11/10/2020 22:31

"Do the students at Cambridge get up to this sort of nonsense too?"

Cambridge University Liberal Association condemn transphobia in Cambridge Labour Party
www.varsity.co.uk/news/19916

And letter to Liz Truss

<a class="break-all" href="https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=thetab.com/uk/cambridge/2020/05/04/more-than-250-cambridge-students-sign-open-letter-in-response-to-transphobic-comments-made-by-minister-for-women-and-equality-liz-truss-136566&ved=2ahUKEwjoiZavvK3sAhXXQUEAHbekAs4QFjABegQIAxAB&usg=AOvVaw0KOzw20p0Sq12qMllTCNPD&cshid=1602451447870" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=thetab.com/uk/cambridge/2020/05/04/more-than-250-cambridge-students-sign-open-letter-in-response-to-transphobic-comments-made-by-minister-for-women-and-equality-liz-truss-136566&ved=2ahUKEwjoiZavvK3sAhXXQUEAHbekAs4QFjABegQIAxAB&usg=AOvVaw0KOzw20p0Sq12qMllTCNPD&cshid=1602451447870

Sorry for the long link.

However I think most Oxbridge students try and ignore this stuff, they are more concerned about how to balance work and social lives including sport/societies if what I gather from DS is right.

ClosetGC · 11/10/2020 22:55

This is enraging beyond belief. I notice the "Oxford Feminist Society" is a signatory.

The letter states that "The 2018 Trans Report from the Student Union showed that 98% of trans students at Oxford report mental health issues". Not surprising really, is it, given that gender dysphoria is a psychological condition.

Clymene · 12/10/2020 08:14

The only difference between men and women is tits. You heard it hear first