Andrew Marr

[AbsintheFriends]

Just caught him being interviewed on Jeremy Vine's radio 2 show (ugh.) I wasn't listening at all but it got my attention when he mentioned 'trans rights and t**fs and so on' or something similar.

I gather he's promoting his new book, 'Elizabethans' which is about Britain since the early 50s when the current Queen came to the throne. His point about trans rights was kind of tacked onto BLM and he seemed to be saying that many of the current social media arguments are not new. That people have been fighting for better treatment on the grounds of race or sexuality for decades. He mentioned one of the Monty Python actors coming out as gay live on TV (the first person to do so.)

I wish I'd been listening more closely, and hopefully I've got this wrong and Andrew Marr - who is usually a sane and sensible commentator - doesn't conflate 'gender identity' with sexual orientation. Does anyone know how the book tackles this subject?

Did he speculate on whether he thought the queen was a T*? You know, being a female head of state and having been in the ATS and all that.

If he did I missed it! I just went over to twitter and there are a couple of tweets expressing surprise/anger about his very casual use of the word T**f. That was what caught my attention and made me listen. He's obviously very aware of the issue and the heated arguments around it and I wondered if he'd ever expressed any opinion of his own. (He's surely too much of an intelligent critical-thinker to buy into the slogan parroting? Mind you, I've been disappointed before...)

I was in the kitchen ranting to the cat when I heard Marr. What on earth was he on about?

I didn't hear it but that sounds about right from Andrew Marr. His interview with Jo Swinson was embarrassing.
There are a number of journalists who are hopelessly ignorant of the issues but can't resist pontificating. Daniel Finkelstein is another one who makes me cringe.

I heard that too. You can insult women as much as you like on the BBC it appears. I haven’t read his book so I don’t know what his opinion on changing sex is.

He was talking about the reporter and author James Morris who broke the news of the ascent of Everest. James transitioned to Jan in the 1970s. He was using JM as an example of “things we think are modern but have been around for years”, as the OP says. I was surprised to hear him use the term “t*rf “ and Jeremy Vine not pull him up on it.

I expect he’s in the be kind/TWAW camp because he’s citing jan Morris who is an old style transsexual

I very much doubt he has an understanding of the breath of ppl gathered under the trans umbrella

He was talking about the reporter and author James Morris who broke the news of the ascent of Everest. James transitioned to Jan in the 1970s. He was using JM as an example of “things we think are modern but have been around for years”, as the OP says. I was surprised to hear him use the term “trf “ and Jeremy Vine not pull him up on it.*

I very much doubt that Andrew Marr has thought about this for more than 2 seconds.

You can't compare Jan Morris (One of a small number of people who has had gender reassignment surgery, born just before women had full suffrage and decades before gay sex was decriminalised) with current concerns debate about gender, in a world where the restrictions that Morris faced shouldn't apply.

I hear the same as you - as in I missed the whole thing, just caught the snippet and it stopped me in my tracks too

Ah, I missed the J Morris bit. I'd be interested in seeing what Marr says in the book. Surely if he's done even the most cursory research he must know that there's more to it than being kind to people like JM who have undergone extensive surgery to relieve dysphoria.

I'm guessing the JKR carnage will have happened well after he finished writing the book, but there was plenty of evidence for the way the 'debate' was being framed and conducted before then, if he cared to look for it. Ho hum - 'nothing new here' doesn't wash, I'm afraid. Minimising the moment women's rights to name themselves and their body parts, to have single sex spaces, to gather without men and discuss issues pertaining exclusively to them; dismissing it as a storm in a teacup isn't going to come across as very insightful to readers in the future.

Or maybe Marr believes that women are only ever bit parts in history. Their pushback against redefinition is just a colourful footnote to the important stuff.

Well I’m his target market for his book. No interest in buying it or reading it.

these guys...
i heard richard curtis this morning saying we have to listen to the young people on 'gender and inclusivity' and i thought uh oh, another one keen to throw away women's rights. they dont give a shit.

Disappointing.

i heard richard curtis this morning saying we have to listen to the young people on 'gender and inclusivity'

Or you could listen to the people who are most likely to have experienced miscarriage, menopause, fertility treatment, pregnancy, the long term effects of sexism - older women.

• i heard richard curtis this morning saying we have to listen to the young people on 'gender and inclusivity'

Oh, we do. And we do them the courtesy of actually thinking about what they're saying, and what the implications may be.

He has never been back on his game since his stroke and is an example of if he was a woman he wouldn't have the job opportunities he currently enjoys. His wife used to lead a women's College in Cambridge and was the head there when they changed policy to admit transgender people so he must be well aware of the sensitivities around this issue.

Who are these men that they think they can you derogatory language towards women and think they can tell us what to do. I'm absolutely sick and tired of idiots like Andrew Marr and Richard Curtis and all the other right on wa's.

I think this is just the other side of the BBC trans training.

These older white men at the BBC dont really engage, but just take what fits with their existing prejudices.

Dont forget JV got his additional show on C5 because he took the job of someone who stood up the the trans right speak, by refusing to apologise for a guest pointint out that a TW was someone who is born male.

Its just an indication that they have never even engaged their brains with anything as trivial as women's rights.

I know everyone thought how wonderful it was that Jenni Murray made some reference to women sharing their sex. But in fact all that illustrated is that for the years / decades she had been presenting WH she had no rights. And in effect by adopting the approved male line help spread the idea that sex and gender are the same.

On one level it doesn't matter because this old anachronistic white men are all being put out to grass. The difference being that they can still get work, whilst a woman of that age cant.

But what is worse is they are being replaced by younger men (and women) who actively promote and demand the trans agenda.

Just more evidence that the beneficiaries of TRAs are MRAs.

The BBC like elsewhere is no place for women.

@Helmetbymidnight

these guys... i heard richard curtis this morning saying we have to listen to the young people on 'gender and inclusivity' and i thought uh oh, another one keen to throw away women's rights. they dont give a shit.

History is full of examples of crackpot ideas dreamt up by young people. Women don't have penises, Richard.

Urgh! If they’d thought for a second they’d realise men have been wearing make up and dresses for years as men (glamrock, grunge, New Romantics etc) and that’s the part that’s not new, and older women should be listened to because they have lived through all the sex based crap that young people somehow think is gender identity.

I hope this Woke bubble bursts soon.

@Helmetbymidnight

these guys... i heard richard curtis this morning saying we have to listen to the young people on 'gender and inclusivity' and i thought uh oh, another one keen to throw away women's rights. they dont give a shit.

Young people are lovely and all that, I know a few of them, but what with the amygdala in overdrive and the hormones fluctuations and 'your words are literal violence', I'm just not sure they should be determining what a woman is in law Richard 🤷🏼‍♀️

Richard Curtis may be similar to Jonathan Ross in having a very woke daughter.

@ARoombaOfOnesOwn

Richard Curtis may be similar to Jonathan Ross in having a very woke daughter.

Perhaps she could speak to him about the hilarious rape that takes place in 'The Boat That Rocked' in the guise of the bed trick?

Not one of his films has aged in a way that doesn't leave you going 'how the fuck did anyone think this blatant sexual assault/harassment/stalking was OK as recently as the 90s/2000s?' I suspect he doesn't really view women as people. If he did he couldn't have written that script. Looking at you too for your involvement Bill Nighy