A statement regarding eligibility for the Women's Prize for Fiction

[HecatesCat]

Well it's 'In our terms and conditions the word 'woman' equates to a cis woman, transgender woman or anyone who is legally defined as a woman or of the female sex'

@stumbledin

Can you give the link for this? I cant see it on their web site. Thanks

Not on the website? That’s interesting. So often I see very different themes, topics and voices on the website and the social media account. Almost as if they are trying to engage with two very different audiences, or they don’t really understand twitter and give it to someone who hasn’t had any PR or crisis/reputation management training to run it for them.

It’s on their twitter account only then.

I think the trustees are on shaky ground. The object of the charity is to further women’s writing. I don’t see how they can impose a definition of women that doesn’t match the legal definition and meet their obligations.

This is absolutely hilarious:

www.theguardian.com/books/2020/oct/05/akwaeke-emezi-shuns-womens-prize-request-for-details-of-sex-as-defined-by-law

Akwaeke Emezi has declined to enter the prize because they don't want to give information about their sex as defined by law. Oh, the drama. The narcissism.

I'm not sure whether Chaz is right - legally you can have single-sex exemptions (but not single-gender exemptions) for things like employment but I think you can offer prizes to any kind of grouping you want (e.g. people with red hair, people over 30, people whose dad was born in Hong Kong - whatever).

But thinking about it, Chaz could be right on the basis that the definition doesn't match the charitable aims.

If you don’t want to enter a woman’s competition then don’t. Enter a non-set specific one. You can’t have your cake and eat it.

I identify as a published author. I think discrimination based on achievements is, well, discriminatory.

Sorted!

The insanity has no end.

here be the Board of trustees

www.womensprizeforfiction.co.uk/about/the-board#:~:text=The%20Prize%20board%20comprises%20of,Harriet%20Hastings%20as%20Managing%20Director.

all achingly middle class by the look of it. Obviously the closest they'd ever get to a TW is being sat next to them at a literary lunch - no need to worry about sharing changing rooms, prison, refuge, sports etc

as I understand, registered charities have to abide by their stated aims (I learnt this on a recent mn thread - thank you clever women). This charity clears states that is it to promote literature written by women. They have no authority to redefine woman.

register-of-charities.charitycommission.gov.uk/charity-search?p_p_id=uk_gov_ccew_onereg_charitydetails_web_portlet_CharityDetailsPortlet&p_p_lifecycle=0&p_p_state=maximized&p_p_mode=view&_uk_gov_ccew_onereg_charitydetails_web_portlet_CharityDetailsPortlet_mvcRenderCommandName=%2Fgoverning-document&_uk_gov_ccew_onereg_charitydetails_web_portlet_CharityDetailsPortlet_LIFERAY_SHARED_backToSearch=https%3A%2F%2Fregister-of-charities.charitycommission.gov.uk%2Fcharity-search%3Fp_p_id%3Duk_gov_ccew_portlet_CharitySearchPortlet%26amp%3Bp_p_lifecycle%3D1%26amp%3Bp_p_state%3Dnormal%26amp%3Bp_p_mode%3Dview%26amp%3B_uk_gov_ccew_portlet_CharitySearchPortlet_cur%3D1%26amp%3B_uk_gov_ccew_portlet_CharitySearchPortlet_delta%3D20%26amp%3B_uk_gov_ccew_portlet_CharitySearchPortlet_keywords%3D1181253%26amp%3B_uk_gov_ccew_portlet_CharitySearchPortlet_orderByCol%3D%26amp%3B_uk_gov_ccew_portlet_CharitySearchPortlet_orderByType%3Dasc%26amp%3B_uk_gov_ccew_portlet_CharitySearchPortlet_priv_r_p_prevCol%3D%26amp%3B_uk_gov_ccew_portlet_CharitySearchPortlet_priv_r_p_useSession%3Dtrue%26amp%3B_uk_gov_ccew_portlet_CharitySearchPortlet_priv_r_p_mvcRenderCommandName%3D%252Fsearch-results&_uk_gov_ccew_onereg_charitydetails_web_portlet_CharityDetailsPortlet_organisationNumber=5123777

Anyone else think they'll be falling over themselves to give it to a transwoman after this controversy.

Actually i think this is quite clever.

'In our terms and conditions the word 'woman' equates to a cis woman, transgender woman or anyone who is legally defined as a woman or of the female sex'

By that I read as you can't identify a woman, you need to have GRC. I mean, I would prefer it to only be the female sex (including transmen) but if they are going to capitulate then at least they are keeping it to a minimum.

[quote gardenbird48]as I understand, registered charities have to abide by their stated aims (I learnt this on a recent mn thread - thank you clever women). This charity clears states that is it to promote literature written by women. They have no authority to redefine woman.

register-of-charities.charitycommission.gov.uk/charity-search?p_p_id=uk_gov_ccew_onereg_charitydetails_web_portlet_CharityDetailsPortlet&p_p_lifecycle=0&p_p_state=maximized&p_p_mode=view&_uk_gov_ccew_onereg_charitydetails_web_portlet_CharityDetailsPortlet_mvcRenderCommandName=%2Fgoverning-document&_uk_gov_ccew_onereg_charitydetails_web_portlet_CharityDetailsPortlet_LIFERAY_SHARED_backToSearch=https%3A%2F%2Fregister-of-charities.charitycommission.gov.uk%2Fcharity-search%3Fp_p_id%3Duk_gov_ccew_portlet_CharitySearchPortlet%26amp%3Bp_p_lifecycle%3D1%26amp%3Bp_p_state%3Dnormal%26amp%3Bp_p_mode%3Dview%26amp%3B_uk_gov_ccew_portlet_CharitySearchPortlet_cur%3D1%26amp%3B_uk_gov_ccew_portlet_CharitySearchPortlet_delta%3D20%26amp%3B_uk_gov_ccew_portlet_CharitySearchPortlet_keywords%3D1181253%26amp%3B_uk_gov_ccew_portlet_CharitySearchPortlet_orderByCol%3D%26amp%3B_uk_gov_ccew_portlet_CharitySearchPortlet_orderByType%3Dasc%26amp%3B_uk_gov_ccew_portlet_CharitySearchPortlet_priv_r_p_prevCol%3D%26amp%3B_uk_gov_ccew_portlet_CharitySearchPortlet_priv_r_p_useSession%3Dtrue%26amp%3B_uk_gov_ccew_portlet_CharitySearchPortlet_priv_r_p_mvcRenderCommandName%3D%252Fsearch-results&_uk_gov_ccew_onereg_charitydetails_web_portlet_CharityDetailsPortlet_organisationNumber=5123777[/quote]
yes garden bird, a charity must abide by its charitable objects or seek to ammend them through the process laid out in it's governing document

THE OBJECTS FOR WHICH THE COMPANY IS ESTABLISHED ARE RESTRICTED SPECIFICALLY TO THE ADVANCEMENT OF THE ART OF LITERATURE FOR THE PUBLIC BENEFIT AND IN PARTICULAR TO FOSTER AND PROMOTE LITERATURE OF MERIT WRITTEN BY WOMEN IN ALL ITS FORMS, INCLUDING BY THE ENCOURAGEMENT OF DIVERSITY AND GREATER GENDER EQUALITY AMONGST WRITERS AND BY THE AWARD OF AN ANNUAL PRIZE FOR A FULL LENGTH NOVEL WRITTEN BY A WOMAN OF ANY NATIONALITY AND PUBLISHED IN ENGLISH.

So fucking predictable.

It’s the or that is the problem. It suggests transgender women don’t need to be legally defined as women.

I do think they are trying to fudge it.

They had to issue this statement because of the Akwaeke Emezi row - when Faber & Faber asked if the writer (who is non-binary) could be submitted for the prize they said “The information we would require from you regards Akwaeke Emezi’s sex as defined by law.”

So the statement on Twitter is to support that decision. When it says:

'In our terms and conditions the word 'woman' equates to a cis woman, transgender woman or anyone who is legally defined as a woman or of the female sex'

they are saying to be considered as a "transgender woman" you would need to be legally defined as a woman i.e. have a GRC.

@ChazsBrilliantAttitude

I think the trustees are on shaky ground. The object of the charity is to further women’s writing. I don’t see how they can impose a definition of women that doesn’t match the legal definition and meet their obligations.

What legal definition? I actually think they would be on shaky grounds if they didn't include trans women.

It used to be for female authors, end of. As it should be, because otherwise what is the point?

I bet certain men who never liked the idea of a women's literary prize are laughing their heads off at this.

So, spotted on that there website of theirs...

I think they are using the legal definition of 'woman' correctly - they are saying you may enter if you are 'legally female' either by birth or by GRC.
You may not enter if you do not wish to disclose your female/male status (so non-binary writers like Emezi are excluded) and you may not enter if you are trans without the legal GRC.

I think it's actually in support of women.

@FairFriday

If you don’t want to enter a woman’s competition then don’t. Enter a non-set specific one. You can’t have your cake and eat it.

Whilst Akwaeke Emezi sounds a complete pain in the arse they have been quite clear they don't want to enter because they are not a woman. They said they were fine about not being eligible.

They were born female but do not identify as a woman or a man.

@RozWatching

It used to be for female authors, end of. As it should be, because otherwise what is the point?

I bet certain men who never liked the idea of a women's literary prize are laughing their heads off at this.

To be honest , include me in that group. I don't like all women short lists for anything.

Bingle I agree - if you analyse it as I did on the second post on the thread a self declaring transwoman who is still a man in law might be able to be excluded as they have not legally changed and their sex is not female unless we think the stand alone work "transgender" means someone who self declares but still has their male private parts intact and has not changed by law yet.

So the person who won the FT women in business prize who I believe dresses as a woman on one or two days a week only might not be eligible for the writing prize perhaps?

Xenia I think this is correct. The Women's Prize are trying to say (clumsily) that you need to be legally female - by birth or by GRC. You cannot be "socially" transgender, and you cannot be non-binary. You need to be female in the eyes of the law = GRC if not female by birth.

I read it as - open to C-word women, transgender (and that covers a wide church) and people with GRC.

@NoSquirrels

Xenia I think this is correct. The Women's Prize are trying to say (clumsily) that you need to be legally female - by birth or by GRC. You cannot be "socially" transgender, and you cannot be non-binary. You need to be female in the eyes of the law = GRC if not female by birth.

And they're quickly discovering that that isn't good enough for some.