Pronouns again

[Etinox]

I feel so upset. Not just pissed off and marginalised. But properly tearful as one by one my peers at work add she/her to their signatures.

'necessarily'

I work in the charity sector and it's very common for people to include their pronouns in their email signatures.

@merrymouse

It isn't necessary a sign that they have strong feelings on the subject. They might just vaguely think they are being polite.

I think its as silly as putting 'Mrs' on your sign off, but as long as they aren't asking you to put your pronouns on your email, I'd just ignore.

Sorry, I think I’d mentioned on another post not here, we are being asked to put our pronouns on. It was more the realisation that I don’t have loads of silent allies at work, just that they hadn’t updated their signatures after the directive suggestion.

@ItalianHat

Oh dear, The regular weekly workplace-wide email yesterday came with a whole section about pronouns - along the lines of "Titles such as Dr can mean that gender is not clear."

Why the FUCK do you think I use a non-sexed title? Exactly so no-one can make assumptions about me, based on my sex. Because being required to say "Mrs" or Miss" is soooooooooo progressive.

Problem is, the only email address they gave for comment was one for the LGBTQIA+ (seriously) Officer. I may have to raise it at the next meeting of the Equality & Diversity committee I sit on.

I think this is the riposte to pronoun requests: there’s evidence of continuing discrimination against women and so drawing attention to ones sex may materially disadvantage women.

@Gncq

I'm just saying it doesn't work like that in real life.

People don't go up to individuals "Hi, what are your pronouns?" As quite honestly that would indeed be a rude question.

If someone is a non-binary or non passing trans person, everyone will know about it you won't have to ask, in the same way you never need to ask if someone is vegan, they just tell you at every opportunity.

What you get are events where everyone has to wear a pronoun badge, eg in Student halls or the BBC and other woke environments, or you have to include pronouns in your work email signature for no reason other than woke.

Everyone basically has pronouns shoved in their face and it's tedious.

ah ok thanks, we don't have personal emails at work and I don't wear a badge so that was the only way I'd envisage it happening at my work

DS has just started second year at uni and they've been told to put pronouns on their Zoom lectures. He's holding out but dare not say a word on the subject. I'm going to send him some of the reasons not to from this thread.

It was from another thread...

"Preferred pronouns" are ~problematic for almost any group you can name. For closeted trans-identified people and questioning people, they put them in the position of either having to come out or lie. For genderfree and gender-critical people, they put them in the position of being forced to lie. For any marginalised group, including women, they invoke the phenomenon of the "stereotype threat" and lead to worse outcomes for those margialised people. State that once you have seen a proper, independent, verified risk assessment on how being required to state preferred pronouns will impact on marginalise people in your university, you will be able to make an informed decision.

"Titles such as Dr can mean that gender is not clear."

Well, quite! And sex can be left a mystery, too. It's one of the benefits, surely? People's gender is their own affair and there is no reason why everybody should be forcibly outed at work and made to sign up to one of 100 or so gender labels. If an individual wants to share that information, perhaps in order to request that colleagues use particular pronouns when talking about them, they are free to do so, but where is this need for compulsion coming from?

People change their minds and some people haven't given their gender much thought at all. It's hardly the job of employers to force consciousness raising on such a personal topic. It isn't acceptable when it's politics or sexual orientation or religious belief, so why is it suddenly fashionable for employers to make intrusive personal enquiries about gender identity? It verges on the prurient.

I love that acquiring the title of Reverend, Doctor, Professor etc recognises a status, calling or expertise without revealing an individual's sex, or their gender for that matter. Use initials for first names and you're free and clear of sexist assumptions.

Why do they think so many writers have historically published under initials and surname?

@Awning10

DS has just started second year at uni and they've been told to put pronouns on their Zoom lectures. He's holding out but dare not say a word on the subject. I'm going to send him some of the reasons not to from this thread.

That is well out of order .. he needs to stand his ground. We wouldn’t force students to put their cameras on in a zoom call so they shouldn’t be forced to do this either. If he is, he needs to escalate it to the programme director (there are still some sensible folk working in universities!).

I love that acquiring the title of Reverend, Doctor, Professor etc recognises a status, calling or expertise without revealing an individual's sex, or their gender for that matter. Use initials for first names and you're free and clear of sexist assumptions.

Absolutely @NewlyGranny It's why I love having a PhD, and I go by Dr I. Hat professionally.

Oh dear, The regular weekly workplace-wide email yesterday came with a whole section about pronouns - along the lines of "Titles such as Dr can mean that gender is not clear."

That's hilariously stupidand ironic, considering that the whole point of using things like 'they' instead of 'he' or 'she' is to make gender (or, arguably, sex) unclear. If people can demand that they be called they, or xie or as womxn or whatever, why the hell shouldn't they be able to demand to be called Dr, fgs?

I'm already picturing one of those talking heads programs on BBC 2 where people look back and remember all the weird fashions of the 70s or whatever
Philomena Cunk fronting obvs

I see this at work too and it doesn't bother me. I don't feel the need to do it myself but I think it's fine if others want to. I assume they have a preferred pronoun that's not obvious to others, or otherwise want to show solidarity with people who feel that way.

Fwiw I also see some 'he/him' declarations. It's not all 'she/her' declarations. So I don't feel like anyone is colonising 'my' pronouns, also am comfortable to share those pronouns with trans sisters.

Now RTFT: no one should be told to reveal pronouns unless they want to, FFS!!!!!
I'm now going to get ordained to make a feminist point. I must be able to do that somewhere on the internet...

@EndlessWaffle Personally, I am often tempted to tick the "Archbishop" or "Flight commander" title box, instead of boring old "Dr" or "Professor"

That is well out of order .. he needs to stand his ground. We wouldn’t force students to put their cameras on in a zoom call so they shouldn’t be forced to do this either. If he is, he needs to escalate it to the programme director (there are still some sensible folk working in universities!).

He dare not speak out. He's "acting dumb". I think it's very interesting that in a woker than woke uni, there are lecturers not using pronouns. Silence speaks a thousand words....

From Spinster:

“Remember peeps to put your pronouns in your bio.

That way, when you’re calling your opponents evil lowlife scumbags &

you try to get them fired, or gloat if they die, everyone will know that

you’re actually incredibly compassionate.”

@InflamatoryWrit

From Spinster:

“Remember peeps to put your pronouns in your bio.

That way, when you’re calling your opponents evil lowlife scumbags &

you try to get them fired, or gloat if they die, everyone will know that

you’re actually incredibly compassionate.”

A Titania McGrath quote. Perfect.