Pronouns

[TheWayOfTheWorld]

So we recently had an email come round work "encouraging" people to add their pronouns to their email signatures.

Currently ignoring it - apparently it is voluntary (yes, voluntary like filling in our info re gender etc on the system is voluntary and we get regularly hounded to do that on a "voluntary" basis - also ignoring that) and don't intend to do so.

However, not updating ones email signature is more visible than not updating HR info and I need some facts in my armour.

I am sure that I read something that the whole pronoun thing is detrimental to women because (a) it reinforces unconscious bias against women and (b) it also has a negative effect on women as they are reminded they are women and down in the pecking order (don't think I have worded that quite correctly...)

Does anyone know what I am talking about?

There have been some threads on this before with lots of useful advice.
In addition to what you’ve said, there’s also the fact that a policy like this could pressure someone who doesn’t feel ready/willing to reveal this information about themselves eg someone who is struggling with gender identity, thinks they’d like to be referred to as “they” but isn’t sure they want to announce this at work.
Posters on the other threads put things much better than I could though.

There was this thread which should help :)

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4032097-Pronouns-at-work-where-do-I-stand-Advice

Thank you, I will take a look

If you don’t have to they can’t make you. And this helps the company how exactly?

I’d ask what their policies are around producing facilities and support for staff with disabilities. It’s a real bugbear or mine.

Oh wow, that seems completely on point - how did I miss it?!

I don't know about anybody else, but I certainly have not been receiving emails from people outside of my organisation with pronouns in their email signatures as our new policy suggests we have.

The same policy also states that we can use whatever name they wish, so for work purposes I am tempted to change mine to Dame Margot Fortescue (am sure Mumsnet can come up with something grander sounding!)

Otherwise I am going to keep my powder dry (for the time being). My head is getting closer to the paraphet...

What PPs said, but I'd also be interested in the company's Equalities Policy. Chances are they're interpreting the Equalities Act in an inclusive fashion rather that the legal one.

Just a hunch.

@SerenityNowwwww

If you don’t have to they can’t make you. And this helps the company how exactly?

I’d ask what their policies are around producing facilities and support for staff with disabilities. It’s a real bugbear or mine.

No they can't but as I said, it is more visible than you aren't doing it.

Depends how many people do it. Hopefully it will fizzle out of people just don’t bother.

@ChaosTrulyReigns

What PPs said, but I'd also be interested in the company's Equalities Policy. Chances are they're interpreting the Equalities Act in an inclusive fashion rather that the legal one.

Just a hunch.

I've just looked - it a few years old and head office is in the US but it talks about "gender identity and/or expression.... or any other characteristic protected by law". Nothing about sex

Jeez

I think it’s against the Yogyakarta principles or some such thing

Principle 6F, if memory serves.

There are issues with the Yogyakarta principles, but if your workplace is going for unthinking trans inclusion then it's a useful document in this instance, because it's basically trans people saying it's not on to expect, compel, or coerce anyone to declare their gender identity.

I don't understand how anyone thinks it will make any sort of difference anyway?

I have a very feminine name. I have never seen or heard of a man with my name therefore it's obvious I'm a woman.

If I were a trans woman and had chosen my name I still wouldn't need to put pronouns as anyone receiving an email from
(Insert very girly name here) would still assume I were a woman.

If I were a trans man and concerned about being addressed as a man then surely I would choose a mans name?

I mean, it's useful sometimes to see a (Mr) or (Mrs) in an email if the email has come from a client called Sam Smith or Charlie Jones and I need to reply or ring them and address them as Mr or Mrs.

I've been going through the thread linked above, am filing the brilliant responses for use in the future.

A bit of a lighthearted take on the pronouns thing:

twitter.com/gumptionology/status/1311237879872528385

The same policy also states that we can use whatever name they wish, so for work purposes I am tempted to change mine to Dame Margot Fortescue (am sure Mumsnet can come up with something grander sounding!)

How about using your CEO's name?

@JellySlice

The same policy also states that we can use whatever name they wish, so for work purposes I am tempted to change mine to Dame Margot Fortescue (am sure Mumsnet can come up with something grander sounding!)

How about using your CEO's name?

[quote Malahaha]A bit of a lighthearted take on the pronouns thing:

twitter.com/gumptionology/status/1311237879872528385[/quote]
Ha ha, love that. Duly saved

*I've just looked - it a few years old and head office is in the US but it talks about "gender identity and/or expression.... or any other characteristic protected by law". Nothing about sex

Jeez*

Oh yes, VERY Jeez

I've always liked the name Lord.

Isn't the standard FWR answer 'my pronouns are sex-based, like my oppression'?

My pronouns are

I, me, my, mine.

The pronouns anybody else uses to refer to me are not mine to dictate.

So my neutral response when asked to compel other people's speech is

"My pronouns are obvious."

The Yogyakarta Principles are not worth the paper on which they are written. That document has no legal weight. It is nothing more than a wish list. It can be ignored.

See the Women's Declaration web site:

womensdeclaration.com/en/

As far as the issue of "pronouns" goes, no-one can compel another to comply against their will.

Any employer who makes such a demand is at risk of creating an intimidating, hostile, degrading, humiliating or offensive environment for employees which amounts to harassment.

My pronouns are: Who's she, the cat's mother?

I’ve had this at work in the past fortnight too!

I adopted the rest of the template but removed the section where you could optionally add you pronouns, diversity groups etc.

I have only seen one fully completed template so far, from a 20something. Made me wonder if I was just old and grumpy by not adopting it.

Not the same company as our HQ is not in the US so it seems to be a bit of a trend.