Another day, another letter...

[Vermeil]

It’s becoming a rather dull tit-for-tat letter signing competition.
Today in the Graun we have a report on a fresh one, this time it has all the usual vague hand-waving, a total and utter failure to address the actual issues, and some slightly sickly ‘be kind’ style fluff. The list of signatories is incredibly predictable.

www.theguardian.com/books/2020/sep/30/more-than-200-writers-and-publishers-sign-letter-in-support-of-trans-and-non-binary-people

So

JKR sex is real and does have an impact on people's lives independent of their gender.
And the response is trans lives matter?
I mean, reading on face value I could put my name to both

Is that libellous? By positioning as in opposition it is implyingJKR said or thinks things that she didn't ?

We just want a little kindness shown by those in the trans community who feel that sex doesn't matter to those of use who think it does?

Lol. Many of support trans people. JKR does too.

We just don't support creeps who think it's fine to threaten to rape women if they have an opinion different to theirs.

The letter is pathetic. What’s alarming is the number of publishing professionals putting their name to this. Including Kiran Millwood Hargrave who was responsible for the Amanda Craig / Mslexia debacle. And a whole load of editors and agents. Perhaps they aren’t aware of the issues. I very much hope the awakening happens soon

Not to say that I don’t support the spirit of the letter - it’s the subtext.

What a handy list of people who hate women and we now know to avoid.

OP Have a vision of the letter signing competition becoming an Olympic Sport.

The majority of us support trans and non-binary people, so why..........????

Is that libellous? By positioning as in opposition it is implyingJKR said or thinks things that she didn't ?

Yes, if not legally, it is deceitful to suggest that condemning abuse is in opposition to the wellbeing and rights of trans and non-binary people

it suggests that condemning abuse is in opposition to the wellbeing and rights of trans and non-binary people

Does this mean that the abuse for JKR was needed for the wellbeing and rights of trans and non-binary people?? Highly insulting to trans and non-binary people surely!!

Did the Guardian report on the letter in support of JKR?

I only recognise a handful of the authors but there are loads of editors etc

The Second Shelf is intersectional, inclusive, and expansive in our use of the term women as we embrace the multidefinitionality of gender identity and expression. This is a crime against the English language.

Horrified that Jeanette Winterson is in there. Wonder how many were approached and felt they couldn't say no?

Not a who's who, but a, who the fuck are you?

Delurking in sadness as close family member has signed this letter. Difficult for me to discuss with him as he will not listen and I do not want to fall out. He is entitled to his opinion I suppose but the thing is ... I can tell by what he says that he has not done any research into this. He has just jumped on a bandwagon in order to get kudos from his peers. I doubt if many of the signatories actually bothered to read what JKR said and as PP said - they have probably no idea what the issues actually are.

@midgebabe
You know, this is something I have a big issue with, the constant calls for kindness and empathy coming from a group who show a persistent self-cantered lack of it towards anyone else. I’m absolutely certain that those who do spout threats and abuse are a (alas, from my reading, not as small as made out) minority within the movement, yet apart from a few brave voices, where is the condemnation of that within the community itself? Can they not see how they’re damaging their own cause, and actually providing all the evidence needed that quite a few within the movement probably should be treated with a deal of caution?

The whole issue is a mess, and I’m glad no new legislation is coming into place when the whole concept of what being trans even is is all so vague and contradictory. It needs pinning down, which can only happen in a way that will exclude quite a few who’ve nestled themselves under the ridiculously huge umbrella, but...tough.

Predictable list of names. Nothing new. It's actually encouraging how few eminent people in publishing are on there.

There are several people on that list who have demonstrated very unpleasant behaviour in the past.

The only name I recognise is Jeanette Winterson. I'm disappointed to see her there, she is an excellent writer and always seemed thoughtful and considerate.

he has not done any research into this. He has just jumped on a bandwagon in order to get kudos from his peers. I doubt if many of the signatories actually bothered to read what JKR said

^this.

All of them

Did the Guardian report on the letter in support of JKR?

I’d like an answer to this too. But I can guess...

Horrified that Jeanette Winterson is in there.

Agree. It states TWAW - so no issues with the cotton ceiling/transing of lesbian/ gender NC girls then Jeanette??

Sack of fucking idiots.

I am thoroughly out of patience with this stuff today.

I just went to see who'd signed it, so I would know who to boycott, but I think this will be the easiest boycott ever. Is there anyone that anyone has actually heard of or gives a shit about on there?

Sad about Jeanette Winterson but honestly she peaked a very long time ago; I'm happy to never read another of her books! I never enjoyed the work of Joanne Harris or finished any of her novels. Of the few remaining that I have even heard of I'd sooner read the dentist's magazine collection.

It says there are publishers on the list too, which is potentially more of a problem. But scrolling down it seems like they are mostly low-level functionaries and I'm not sure that publishers should be boycotted for having problematic low-level staff members.

I read a very jarring statement by Jeanette Winterson in either an essay or one of her books. I can't remember it now but it came across to me as very dismissive towards those she saw as her intellectual inferiors.

The trouble with intelligent people who know they are bright is that they can be the very worst sometimes for applying critical thinking skills or questioning their own conclusions, because they think they don't need to.

They can assume the right answer is the first answer that flashes into their head and no more thinking is required of their intelligent brain. Sadly this is not always true and the trans debate is an absolute classic example.

I was trying to work out why I was so disappointed to see Jeanette Winterson on the list and it's not just because she's a lesbian but because she was raised in a cult-like Pentecostalist home and managed to fight her way out and document the madness of it. It feels pretty tragic to me that someone who struggled so hard to escape one false belief system has fallen for another. And she's married to Susie Orbach who certainly used to know exactly the kind of issues that women experience as a result of their sex. I am doubly glum.

What if JKR herself was to sign that letter?